Activation, Valkyrion, and The Shallow Grave

T

Tiso

Calculative Duelist
I have a question. Are you able to flip over Ordeal of a Traveler before your opponent declares an attack, like during their Main Phase? I know it says I cannot activate its effect until they declare an attack, but isn't activating an effect and activating the card different? Also, are you able to use Spell or Trap Cards whenever you want to? In this scenario, my opponent has no monsters on his/her field, but I need to clear out my hand, for example to Special Summon Elemental Hero Bubbleman and activate its ability to draw 2 cards from my Deck. Am I able to just use Lightning Vortex in my hand to discard my extra card just so I can now only hold 1 card in my hand, which would be Elemental Hero Bubbleman? Same goes for if there are no Spell or Trap Cards on the field and I use Heavy Storm.

When I Special Summon Valkyrion the Magna Warrior correctly, then activate its ability to Special Summon Alpha, Beta, and Gamma The Magnet Warrior from my Graveyard am I able to activate Premature Burial or any other recursion card to Special Summon Valkryion back to my side of the field?

Last question, about The Shallow Grave. I think I remember there used to be a ruling some years ago and then it vanished or maybe I was mistaken, but am I able to activate The Shallow Grave if my opponent has no monsters in the Graveyard?
 
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The effect activation is seperate from the card activation.

If I'm not mistaken, the effect can only b activted if the card is face-up on the field. But I'll have to look into it to be sure. I do know for certain that while its face-up on the field it's effect can be activated in chain to other effects (provided the timeing is correct.)
 
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Tiso said:
I have a question. Are you able to flip over Ordeal of a Traveler before your opponent declares an attack, like during their Main Phase? I know it says I cannot activate its effect until they declare an attack, but isn't activating an effect and activating the card different?
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The judges list has nothing on Ordeal specifically, but the few times its popped up on the forums its been stated that it indeed needs to be face-up before you activate its effect. You can't flip it in response to an attack.

This is true of many Continuous Trap Cards that have trigger-like effects as opposed to something like Gravity Bind. I suggest doin a search of this forum and checking the respective threads out.

Also, are you able to use Spell or Trap Cards whenever you want to? In this scenario, my opponent has no monsters on his/her field, but I need to clear out my hand, for example to Special Summon Elemental Hero Bubbleman and activate its ability to draw 2 cards from my Deck. Am I able to just use Lightning Vortex in my hand to discard my extra card just so I can now only hold 1 card in my hand, which would be Elemental Hero Bubbleman? Same goes for if there are no Spell or Trap Cards on the field and I use Heavy Storm.
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Well, you can't activate a Spell ot Trap card for no reason. Lightning Vortex for example would have to be destroying something.

When I Special Summon Valkyrion the Magna Warrior correctly, then activate its ability to Special Summon Alpha, Beta, and Gamma The Magnet Warrior from my Graveyard am I able to activate Premature Burial or any other recursion card to Special Summon Valkryion back to my side of the field?
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If you Special Summon him correctly the first time, yes, then that makes him eligable for immmediate retrieval.

Last question, about The Shallow Grave. I think I remember there used to be a ruling some years ago and then it vanished or maybe I was mistaken, but am I able to activate The Shallow Grave if my opponent has no monsters in the Graveyard?
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Shallow Grave targets. So both players would have to have an eligable monster in both Graveyards at activation.
 
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Tiso said:
So I have to activate Ordeal of a Traveler before they declare an attack? I cannot have it flipped face-up and then activate its effect? Are you sure? I know for a fact when playing on Yu-Gi-Oh! Online you could activate Ultimate Offering and activate the effect during the Battle Phase. I will probably need more opinions on that topic. At least I have definitive answers on The Shallow Grave now.
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Ordeal of a Traveler has the same timing requirements for it's effect as Mirror Force or Sakuretsu Armor. So the only time you can activate the effect is when it is already face-up when the opponent declares an attack. Ultimate Offering could be turned face-up and allowed to resolve to the field and then be activated to use its effect in a second chain because it does not have attack response timing. Make sense?
 
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That makes sense. This is why when I find out how cards really work they change my perception of them. I like Ordeal of a Traveler when all my friend's started using it, but now that I know how it is supposed to work I do not find it so good. One last question. When I Special Summon Valkyrion the Magna Warrior by sending Alpha, Beta, and Gamma The Magnet Warrior to the Graveyard, and my opponent responds to the summon with Bottomless Trap Hole, do I have priority to activate its effect to Special Summon those parts from the Graveyard? I understand no monster has priority and it is the turn player who has priority from reading the articles on this forum.
 
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Yes. Because summons do not use the chain, you as the turn player retain priority after summoning to activate ignition effects or spell speed two effects.
-pssvr
 
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.:TDK:. said:
Well then why is it that at many tournies I have been two I am able to activate Toon Table of Contents but I don't have to search for anything with the last one, it just goes to the grave?
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Because you ARE doing something with that effect. Your searching your Deck. Activating Lightning Vortex with no monsters to destroy or Heavy Storm with no Spell/Trap to destroy is not doing anything. But by actiating a searcer, your actually going to accomplish something, even if you doesn't yeild the results you were looking for.
 
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Exactly. If you could activate a card based on what else might happen in the game it would be legal to activate Call of the Haunted in the Damage Step if you summoned a monster like Command Knight. It would include the effect of boosting ATK.

The card that is being activated having the ability to do what it is supposed to is what is important. Not the fallout that would ensue.
 
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Tiso said:
That makes sense. This is why when I find out how cards really work they change my perception of them. I like Ordeal of a Traveler when all my friend's started using it, but now that I know how it is supposed to work I do not find it so good.
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Ok, I'm not sure we've explained well enough just how this card works, so I'll 'try' to see if I can do it any better.

"Ordeal of a Traveler" does not have any kind of activation requirement, meaning, you can flip the card face-up at any time after it's been set for at least a turn. So, you could set it, then end your turn and when your opponent draws you can activate it (flip it face-up). Then, when your opponent attacks, you would choose to activate it's optional triggered effect. So, as you can see, if it's already face-up on the field, then you can activate it's effect to try to bounce your opponent's monster back to their hand.

What you can't do is activate it (flip it face-up) in response to the attack declaration AND try to use it's optional triggered effect in the same chain.

This is what I usually do with this card. I'll set it, then end my turn. Then when my opponent tries to declare their attack (because they normally don't announce when they leave their Main Phase 1 to enter their Battle Phase), I'll stop them and say "Wait, when you end your Main Phase 1, I would like to activate my set "Ordeal of a Traveler". This is valid because, if you remember, a phase of the game is NOT completed unless BOTH players agree that it's completed. Just because the Turn Player decides they want to attack doesn't mean that I am ready for them to move into the Battle Phase yet. So by stopping them and stating what I am doing at the end of their Main Phase 1, I am getting "Ordeal of a Traveler" face-up BEFORE they declare their attack, and they may also decide NOT to attack now becuase they are afraid of having their monster sent back to their hand...lol.

Anyway, I hope this has helped explain this card a little better. It is definitely a powerful card.

I hope this has helped!
 
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