Are the rulings in Upper Deck Entertainment different/outdated?

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drzero7

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I keep hearing all these odd stuff in there.

Like say if you attack a face-down Cyber Phoenix, you still draw a card. (Cause it got "flipped" after attacked) Or a face-down D.D. Survivor comes back when destroyed in battle while there's Macro Cosmos is on the field. Or like say you attacked, your foe didn't chain anything, I activate Book of Moon on the foe's monster, and THEN he chains Sakuretsu. (If I'm correct, he missed his timing) Also stuff like you canot chain Scapegoat, into your own Torrential when your foe summoned a monster. (Cause Scapegoat interrupts the timing of Torrential)

Are they lying... I don't think so cause they SAID the read it...
 
Like say if you attack a face-down Cyber Phoenix, you still draw a card. (Cause it got "flipped" after attacked)
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When this face-up card on the field attacks or is attacked, and it is destroyed as a result of battle and sent to the Graveyard, you can draw 1 card from your Deck.
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It wasn't face-up when attacked. Therefore its effect won't activate.
Or a face-down D.D. Survivor comes back when destroyed in battle while there's Macro Cosmos is on the field.
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That is true.
Or like say you attacked, your foe didn't chain anything, I activate Book of Moon on the foe's monster, and THEN he chains Sakuretsu.
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By my logic, you BOTH missed the timing. Also, you can't chain to an attack. But anyway, by choosing not to respond to your own attack and letting your opponent choose not to respond, you have ended the Battle Step. That's by my logic for which I've been endlessly flamed. I know I'm right. But if you want to play conservatively, go with what UDE says. In that case, according to Kevin, neither player missed the timing. Kevin is wrong. But I've been told I'm in no position to argue with him. But he's wrong.
Also stuff like you canot chain Scapegoat, into your own Torrential when your foe summoned a monster. (Cause Scapegoat interrupts the timing of Torrential)
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You can chain Scapegoat to Torrential Tribute. What do you mean by "interrupts"?
 
drzero7 said:
I keep hearing all these odd stuff in there.

Like say if you attack a face-down CyberPhoenix, you still draw a card. (Cause it got "flipped" after attacked)
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Nope. See: http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=10561#10561

Or a face-down D.D. Survivor comes back when destroyed in battle while there's Macro Cosmos is on the field.
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No again. http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=10564#10564

Or like say you attacked, your foe didn't chain anything, I activate Book of Moon on the foe's monster, and THEN he chains Sakuretsu. (If I'm correct, he missed his timing)
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Er, if I understand this correctly your Book of Moon-ing a defending monster? He can, if the chain was started in response to this attack. Any cards in that chain can have the attack response timing, even if they weren't the first card put on that chain. The last event to successfully occur was an attack declaration. The other cards in the chain do not interrupt the timing because they are unresolved, and not completed events.

Also stuff like you canot chain Scapegoat, into your own Torrential when your foe summoned a monster. (Cause Scapegoat interrupts the timing of Torrential)
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Of course you can chain Scapegoat to Torrential, as long as your not trying to respond to the Sheep Token summons. The chain that your putting Torrential and Scapegoat in must be in response to successfully completed summon (much like the attack declaration thing above).
 
Or like say you attacked, your foe didn't chain anything, I activate Book of Moon on the foe's monster, and THEN he chains Sakuretsu. (If I'm correct, he missed his timing)
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Say you attacked.........

After you declare an attack, you retain.....for lack of a better term for this scenario....priority to activate an effect to start a chain. If you pass on this option, the option to activate an effect goes to your opponent. If they pass, the option does not come back to you. Once both players have passed the game moves on. I agree with Jason here. But also like he said, what Kevin says goes.

So......in which case....you activate book of moon after your opponent has passed.....sending a chance to respond back at them. As stated by DJ, the window for sakuretsu armor is still open, and your opponent throws it on the chain. Chain resolves, your attacking monster dies, your opponents monster goes face down, and the game moves on from there.
 
Okay, I'm off about Saku then right?

And oh, I didn't "read" ANY of the stuff I said. This is what my foe complain on local card shop tournaments and saying I'm playing illegially, or he's right while they're playing illegially. (I faught a Chimera deck that had 3x Cyber Phoenix and he sets them all just for draws.)

So I'm saying, "where" do they read these UDE rulings that I'm not getting?
 
The first two, no. They're completely off, and the UDE information I posted completely contradicts them. I don't know where they got their info, but it would be incorrect.

The last two are correct, and are all about timing. Saying "you can't chain Torrential Tribute to Scapegoat" is a blanket statement that can either be true or false depending on what it is your trying to do.

When a player summons a monster, the first effect activated in response to this summon creates a chain. Any effects placed within this chain can have the summon response timing. So he can activate Torrential Tribute, Bottomless Trap Hole, Trap Hole, etc, at any point, as any chain link, within this chain. If somebody happens to place Scapegoat within this chain, this is not going to prevent a player from chaining Torrential Tribute to Scapegoat, because this particular chain, is still in response to the summon that started it all. In this context you can chain Torrential to Scapegoat.

What you cannot do, is chain Torrential to Scapegoat when it's not part of this response chain. For example, there's been no summon. All a player has done is activate Scapegoat. A player cannot chain Torrential to Scapegoat, because there has been no summon. A player could wait for the effect resolve, and activate Torrential in response to the Sheep Token summons, but not chain the effect directly to it, because nothing has been summoned at this pint. In this context you can't chain Torrential to Scapegoat.

When people said "you can't chain Torrential to Scapegoat", most of the time, people were trying to do the second example up there. Chain it when no summon had occurred. That didn't mean that Torrential and Scapegoat were these two special cards that were forever banned from being in consecutive chain links from each other. It simply meant that Torrential Tribute must be responding to a completed summon. If it's not, then it can never be activated.


This is information concerning summon response timing and attack response timing is easily found by doing a search of the Judges List. Actually, you'll no doubt find a lot of it here on CoG.
 
A little common sense

Although ruled correctly, I want to talk about how D.D. Survivor SHOULD be ruled on the Macros Cosmos situation. They say when the opponent gets your D.D. Survivor, and gets it killed, you don't get its effect to special summon, hmm, let's read the card through the eyes of the controller (the opponent)

"If this face-up card on your side of the field is removed from play, this card is Special Summoned to the owner's side of the field during the End Phase."

Alright, so the opponent has your D.D. Survivor, and the tribute it. let's run through a checklist for its effect.

1.(Was it face-up on your side of the field?)-Yes, the opponent looking at the card, it sure was on his side of the field, and he gets any effect of a controlled monster of his on his side of the field.

2.(Was it removed from play?)-Yes, cosmos sent it. It wasn't to my RFP, but then again, does it say YOUR RFP?

3.(Should it be theoretically special summoned, Oceanus?)- Of course.

Alright, now for when it's face-down and destroyed by battle, it SHOULD also, theoretically, get its effect, come on now. In battle, a monster is flipped face-up before being destroyed, and it's a trigger! It surely was triggered when rfp by cosmos. They compare it to Poison Draw Frog, simply because it has to be face-up also to get its effect. Hmm? Are you inhaling the fumes? Read Poison Draw Frog, it specifically says in brackets "When this face-up card on the field is sent to the Graveyard (unless it was attacked while face-down and destroyed as a result of battle)". See that? Does D.D. Survivor have any clarification like that? I think not, and why? Because they have to put that there, if that wasn't there, then there's nothing stopping frog from getting its effect when destroyed face-down. Come on now, I really don't think they through that line in there for kicks.
Case Closed.

-Oceanus
 
D.D. Survivor came out before Poison Draw Frog. The appropriate text was left out. They made sure to add it to Poison Draw Frog to prevent any further confusion.
 
Yeah, in MOST cases, if the text says "face-up" it means that it have to be face-up already before the attack was even declared. It's a VERY RARE case that it'll do some other odd stuff. (like Drillroid vs Sand Moth. IMO, Sand Moth should get the effect, but the ruling says it's flipped first so no)

So, I'm confused about Saku vs Book of Moon. So, is this "kevin" person in UDE right and if I attack, then later Book of Moon, the foe cannot Saku my monster?
 
It's very difficult to answer your questions because Kevin could be Kevin Tewart or Kevin Joe Bob from blah blah website....
 
I was referring of Kevin as in this Kevin from this quote on this topic by Jason C

By my logic, you BOTH missed the timing. Also, you can't chain to an attack. But anyway, by choosing not to respond to your own attack and letting your opponent choose not to respond, you have ended the Battle Step. That's by my logic for which I've been endlessly flamed. I know I'm right. But if you want to play conservatively, go with what UDE says. In that case, according to Kevin, neither player missed the timing. Kevin is wrong. But I've been told I'm in no position to argue with him. But he's wrong.
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I have no clue who he is.
 
He is Kevin Tewart, who is sort of top dog at UDE.

It is important to note that although Kevin makes a lot of judgments about the rulings of the game, he has NO POWER WHATSOEVER to change official rulings or card text. If there is ambiguous text involved from Konami, Kevin can make a decision about how those situations should be ruled.

In this case he has no power to contradict the game mechanics and therefore his ruling is in every way utterly false. However, you're not actually allowed to SAY that. Most people tend to keep quiet about it, especially on these forums. I don't, because my reputation is low enough that people don't really expect any better of me.
 
Jason_C said:
He is Kevin Tewart, who is sort of top dog at UDE.

It is important to note that although Kevin makes a lot of judgments about the rulings of the game, he has NO POWER WHATSOEVER to change official rulings or card text. If there is ambiguous text involved from Konami, Kevin can make a decision about how those situations should be ruled.

In this case he has no power to contradict the game mechanics and therefore his ruling is in every way utterly false. However, you're not actually allowed to SAY that. Most people tend to keep quiet about it, especially on these forums. I don't, because my reputation is low enough that people don't really expect any better of me.
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Just for clarification purposes, statements made by Kevin or anyone else on the Judges List for that matter, are statements made to clarify how the TCG is to be played. Even if a ruling by them is contrary to the logical rational of a few players, it's still the info we're supposed to go by. It's not about keeping quite about it. It's about respecting the authority that Konami has given UDE, as UDE didn't just decide they were going to be the final say on such maters. Konami put them there.

Making blanket statements that the Judges List is inherently wrong, and that UDE officials "have no power" is irresponsible and misleading. It insinuates to player's that they can arbitrarily decide when and if to follow instructions on the Judges List. For better or for worse, regardless of your opinion of how they do things, we're subjected to those instructions. If you play this game in any official capacity, then arguing with the judges that any statements made there are wrong and incorrect, not only are you not going to get far with that reasoning, your likely to get removed from the event. It doesn't matter if your logic does not see it their way. Konami didn't say to follow UDE instructions only if your logic agrees with them. That's not how it works.
 
So... back to the question. If I attack a monster, then the foe doesn't chain anything, then I activate Book of Moon on my opponent Monster, can he chain Saku or not?
 
drzero7 said:
So... back to the question. If I attack a monster, then the foe doesn't chain anything, then I activate Book of Moon on my opponent Monster, can he chain Saku or not?
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...No, u cannot chain a "Sakuretsu Armor" to a "Book of Moon"...
 
Actually, you would be able to use the sakuretsu armor, even chained to book of moon in this situation. Going by BKSS (because Konami said so, which also means UDE at this point [making it BUDESS]), you still could activate the book of moon. Then your opponent would be able to respond to the book of moon. The last thing to succesfully happen is still the declaration of an attack, leaving the window for sakuretsu armor open (and making you wish you still had the book of moon to use, using it to save your own @$$). Sakuretsu armor resolves, destroying your attacking monster, then book of moon resolves, turning the opponent's monster face down.
 
...I differ and here r my reasons imagine the scenario.-

1.- Player A attacks and passes its priority to player B
2.-Player B do nothing and passes priority back to Player A
3.-Player A usess it´s priority and activates Book of Moon to the opponent´s monster
4.-Player B can´t activate "Sakuretsu Armor" because the Timing of activation pass...
 
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