Autonomous Action Unit?

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Re: Silent Swordsman LV5] You can Special Summon "Silent Swordsman LV5" with "Autonomous Action Unit". If "Autonomous Action Unit" is removed from the field, "Silent Swordsman LV5" is unaffected and remains on the field.

"¢ [Re: Spell Canceller] You can Special Summon "Spell Canceller" with "Premature Burial"; the effect of "Premature Burial" is negated by "Spell Canceller" so if "Premature Burial" is destroyed, "Spell Canceller" is not destroyed and remains on the field.

From these rulings, I would say that the monster attached to AAU would remain on the opponent's side, but would not go down with AAU whenever either card is removed or destroyed.
 
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blade146 said:
If you use "Autonomous Action Unit" to Special Summon a monster from your opponent's Graveyard and then activate "Dimensionhole", "Autonomous Action Unit" is destroyed and when the monster returns to the field it returns to the original owner's control.
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This ruling involves the Monster being removed from play. When a monster is removed from play it is separated from lingering conditions.

So if you were to insert Monster Reborn in AAU's place the ruling should be the same.

It is not a continuous effect that holds the monster to the controller's side of the field, and so even with AAU negated, the monster will not go to the owner's side of the field.
 
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Ther is no technical reason for the monster Special Summoned with Autonomous Action Unit to go to the owner's side of the field when negated. This effect is no different then something like Call of the Haunted or Premature Burial when their Continuous Effects are being negated. The only issue would be do the monster's return to the Graveyard, which previous precident shows does not happen. But the card is granting special dispensation to, specifically, be on your side of the field, not special dipensation to be anywhere else.
 
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blade146 said:
I would think that is the way it would work until I read this ruling.

If you use "Autonomous Action Unit" to Special Summon a monster from your opponent's Graveyard and then activate "Dimensionhole", "Autonomous Action Unit" is destroyed and when the monster returns to the field it returns to the original owner's control.

It would seem if it gets destroyed or negated the monster returns to the owner if it lives.
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The monster is being brought into play by an entirely differnt effect with Dimensionhole. All ties to Autonomous Action Unit have been severed. Anytime a monster is brought into play, only an effect or special set of curcumstances will prevent it from returning to original owner's side of the field. It's a default action.

magnumcyclonex said:
There is no "Remove Brainwashing" effect that would return the monster to the original owner's side of the field. We would need the actual card "Remove Brainwashing" to do this.
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That's a misconception. Removing Brainwashing lifts the effects of control changers frm the cards they are affecting. The default action of a card under an opponent's control is to return to the owner, if nothing else is preventing it from doing so. Take a look at the respective ruligns for different control changers and you'll see where this becomes more and more evident as you go along.
 
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skey23 said:
Ok, question for the well mannered people of our lovely forums.

My opponent controls my monster, equipped with "Autonomous Action Unit".
I Summon "Spell Canceller".
What happens to my monster?

Does it stay on their side, or return to me now that "Autonomous Action Unit" is negated?


Thanks.
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Since Spell Canceller negates the effects of spell cards both on the field as well as those that are activated while it is on the field (except Spiritualism), the card that is equipped to Autonomous Action Unit is destroyed and returned to the owners graveyard. Since AAU is no longer equipped to the card, it is then destroyed as it's effect now Disappears. But I could be wrong.
 
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HorusMaster said:
Since Spell Canceller negates the effects of spell cards both on the field as well as those that are activated while it is on the field (except Spiritualism), the card that is equipped to Autonomous Action Unit is destroyed and returned to the owners graveyard. Since AAU is no longer equipped to the card, it is then destroyed as it's effect now Disappears. But I could be wrong.
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Wrong. It does negate it, but it also negates the effect that destroys the monster that was summoned by it, so the monster stays on the field on the side of the player who controlled Autonomous Action Unit.

Also, when a card like Call of the Haunted, Autonomous Action Unit or Premature Burial is negated after it has been resolved, the monster stays on the field.
 
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Chillout1984 said:
Wrong. It does negate it, but it also negates the effect that destroys the monster that was summoned by it, so the monster stays on the field on the side of the player who controlled Autonomous Action Unit.

Also, when a card like Call of the Haunted, Autonomous Action Unit or Premature Burial is negated after it has been resolved, the monster stays on the field.
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Are you saying that Spell Canceller negates Spiritualism? I understand and agree with your statement regarding the monster summoned with Autonomous Action Unit. I know that Spell Canceller negates the effect of Premature Burial as an equip card and that the monster stays on the field. It is something like Call of the Haunted with Jinzo.
 
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HorusMaster said:
Are you saying that Spell Canceller negates Spiritualism? I understand and agree with your statement regarding the monster summoned with Autonomous Action Unit. I know that Spell Canceller negates the effect of Premature Burial as an equip card and that the monster stays on the field. It is something like Call of the Haunted with Jinzo.
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Spiritualism is a complete other type of card, it explicitly says that it's effect cannot be negated, so there's not much to do there.
 
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I for one would truly like to see UDE give some more rulings for Autonomous Action Unit as what we currently have is severely lacking.

My assumption of how AAU works is based on other Equip Type interactions we are aware of (Snatch Steal, Dark Necrofear, etc.) since Silent Swordsman LV5 is only immune to the opponent's spells we can surmise that this "borrowed" type of Equip relationship is in play. What the ruling doesn't seem to indicate though is that since Silent Swordsman LV5 is still considered to be the Original Owner's monster why would it not return to the Owner's side of the field when AAU is destroyed?
We also have no rulings regarding Imperial Order or Spell Canceller interaction with AAU. I feel it would be logical that if AAU is treating the equipped monster as "Stolen" from the Original Owner by the Equip it would be fair to say the monster will revert to the control of the Original Owner if AAU is being negated. I would also think that if the stolen monster is flipped face-down with Book of Moon he would remain under the control of the opposing player.

Digital Jedi said:
The monster is being brought into play by an entirely differnt effect with Dimensionhole. All ties to Autonomous Action Unit have been severed. Anytime a monster is brought into play, only an effect or special set of curcumstances will prevent it from returning to original owner's side of the field. It's a default action.


Quote:
magnumcyclonex is quoted to have said:
There is no "Remove Brainwashing" effect that would
return the monster to the original owner's side of the
field. We would need the actual card "Remove
Brainwashing" to do this.

That's a misconception. Removing Brainwashing lifts the effects of control changers frm the cards they are affecting. The default action of a card under an opponent's control is to return to the owner, if nothing else is preventing it from doing so. Take a look at the respective ruligns for different control changers and you'll see where this becomes more and more evident as you go along.
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We've discussed this ad nauseum so I'm sure we aren't coming to a consensus on this but I disagree with your statement. If the monster was brought back with Monster Reborn and then removed with Dimension Hole it will not revert to the Original Owner when it returns. A Strike Ninja that was taken from the Original Owner by Exchange and then summoned by the new Controller can remove itself from play and return to the field without reverting to the control of the Original Owner. The remove from play = Remove Brainwashing is only present in rulings for the Snatch Steal type of Equips. Change of Heart only changes control of the selected monster for a single turn and thus there is never a question of "Ownership", the monster once it returns from out of play will go back to the Owner because it was always the Owner's monster, it was only being "borrowed" for the turn.
 
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anthonyj said:
I for one would truly like to see UDE give some more rulings for Autonomous Action Unit as what we currently have is severely lacking.

My assumption of how AAU works is based on other Equip Type interactions we are aware of (Snatch Steal, Dark Necrofear, etc.) since Silent Swordsman LV5 is only immune to the opponent's spells we can surmise that this "borrowed" type of Equip relationship is in play. What the ruling doesn't seem to indicate though is that since Silent Swordsman LV5 is still considered to be the Original Owner's monster why would it not return to the Owner's side of the field when AAU is destroyed?
We also have no rulings regarding Imperial Order or Spell Canceller interaction with AAU. I feel it would be logical that if AAU is treating the equipped monster as "Stolen" from the Original Owner by the Equip it would be fair to say the monster will revert to the control of the Original Owner if AAU is being negated. I would also think that if the stolen monster is flipped face-down with Book of Moon he would remain under the control of the opposing player.



We've discussed this ad nauseum so I'm sure we aren't coming to a consensus on this but I disagree with your statement. If the monster was brought back with Monster Reborn and then removed with Dimension Hole it will not revert to the Original Owner when it returns. A Strike Ninja that was taken from the Original Owner by Exchange and then summoned by the new Controller can remove itself from play and return to the field without reverting to the control of the Original Owner. The remove from play = Remove Brainwashing is only present in rulings for the Snatch Steal type of Equips. Change of Heart only changes control of the selected monster for a single turn and thus there is never a question of "Ownership", the monster once it returns from out of play will go back to the Owner because it was always the Owner's monster, it was only being "borrowed" for the turn.
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I notice some of the old Strike Ninja rulings have been removed from the database. So in some ways they have made this easier to understand, if not intentionally.

First off, removed from play does not equal Remove Brainwashing. Everyone keeps going back to that when we discuss this, but that's not what I'm trying to pont out. Remove Brainwashing is an effect that says: "If you own it, or you created it, you get it back." This is completely different from the mechanic that determins ownership, as Remove Brainwashing even gives you Ojama Tokens if your the one who played Ojama Trio. So let's forget Remove Brainwashing for a minute.

Like I said, the question of wnership is depenadnt on the effects invloved, but the effects are always working around the default action. Snatch Steal is a Continuous Control changing effect that must remain in play to control the stlen monster. Sever the ties for any reason and you don't get to keep it. Creature Swap is an effect the permantly keeps the monster on the respective sides of the field. Theproblem where having is when we try to explain these issue using Strike Ninja. He has a very different type of effect that defies some of the noramal mechnics of monster when removed from play. At least he used to. I don't see some of those rulings I used to see surrounding him in the database any more.

Although I might point out, that I wasn't saying that the monster removed by Dimensionhole would return to the owner's side of the field. It shouldn't. The effect that retuered him retunred him returns him to a specific place. Ownership is irrelavent because he is being brought back into play by Dimensionhole's directions. Not by game mechanic's directions.
 
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skey23 said:
Not according to the rulings.

If I have one of my opponent's monsters via "Monster Reborn" and "Remove Brainwashing" is activated, that monster returns to them.

The same thing goes for "Exchange" as well.
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That is for Remove Brainwashing itself. Now show me one where the monster would be returned to the Original Owner when it returns to the field after being removed from play by Dimension Hole, Different Dimension Gate, or Interdimensional Matter Transporter, and I'll buy the "removed from play = Remove Brainwashing" argument. :)
 
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skey23 said:
Ok, question for the well mannered people of our lovely forums.

My opponent controls my monster, equipped with "Autonomous Action Unit".
I Summon "Spell Canceller".
What happens to my monster?

Does it stay on their side, or return to me now that "Autonomous Action Unit" is negated?


Thanks.
Click to expand...
I know this is very late but...

It's a simple concept here, AAU is NOT what is keeping the monster on your side of the field, so it being negated is irrelevent.

As a general rule of thumb, when you (or an effect you control) perform a "summon" event, part of that mechanic places the monster(s) summoned under you control automatically.

The act of summoning gives the summoning (or setting) player "permanent" control of the monster.

Just some thoughts
 
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anthonyj said:
That is for Remove Brainwashing itself. Now show me one where the monster would be returned to the Original Owner when it returns to the field after being removed from play by Dimension Hole, Different Dimension Gate, or Interdimensional Matter Transporter, and I'll buy the "removed from play = Remove Brainwashing" argument. :)
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They return to the last player to have "permanent" control, because the act of removing them erases the "temporary" control characteristics, and since none of those effects summons the monster back, it defaults to the last "permanent" controller.

You actually have to summon it back to gain "permanent" control.
 
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