Batteryman AA

Dillie-O

Dillie-O

Council of Heroes
Just to double check, since I didn't see any postings in the e-mail sent out to the judges. Batteryman DOESN'T include itself in ATK/DEF calculations, right? I know Goblin King doesn't count itself and the text is similar, minus the dependency on all of them to be in the same position?
 
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But Goblin King specifically says "(excluding this card)", which Batteryman AA does not.

I'm pretty sure it DOES include itself.

So if you have one Batteryman AA face-up on the field, it's either 1000ATK/0DEF or 0ATK/1000DEF. 2 (in the same battle position) and they're each 2000, 3 (in the same battle position) and they're each 3000 ... or, in your case from this weekend, 5 in ATK = 5000ATK each :D
 
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I saw someone with 3 on the field this weekend, then he used Double Attack on one. 2 3000 attacks from 1, then the 2nd one attack, then the 3rd one attack! Quick end game. Here is a question about multiple Battery men this weekend though that I wonder......

3 Battery Men on the field in ATK position and you use Gift of the Martyr on one, selecing one of the 3 to tribute. This, if I am not mistaken, would bring the targeted monster 5000 for the turn, because it would be 2000 (for the 2 still on the field) plus 3000 (the ATK of the tributed battery man when it was tributed from the field), and I was wondering if I was correct.

Any Ideas?

Anyway, thanks to those who seem to reply to most of my posts (Digital Jedi, skey23, Strike Ninja, bishop, and DaGuy). You all are actually helping me more than you could think.


Edit: I just read the rulings on the FAQ, and realized that the original ATK is still 0/0. Hey now anyone who reads this will know it too! This was not a waste of time (I can tell myself whatever I want if it makes me feel better, right?).
 
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No prob, thats what we're here for. :D

I'm going to go by the orignal rulings for Original ATK and Def for this one. Gift of the Martyr looks at the Original ATK of the monster sent to the Graveyard. So all you would manage to accomplish in this scenario is increasing Batteryman AA's ATK by 0 and diminishing it by 1000 placing him at 2000.

EDIT: No fair not letting me correct you first! Stupid Dial-up!
 
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When you tribute a monster as a cost and then look at the ATk or DEF valus of it when an effect resolves, it is always the original ATK since the monster is in the graveyard and there are no effects which ever change the ATk or DEF of a monster in the graveyard.

There are exceptions to this, such as with Mysttik wok, but it is clearly stated on the card.
 
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Manta said:
When you tribute a monster as a cost and then look at the ATk or DEF valus of it when an effect resolves, it is always the original ATK since the monster is in the graveyard and there are no effects which ever change the ATk or DEF of a monster in the graveyard.

There are exceptions to this, such as with Mysttik wok, but it is clearly stated on the card.
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Actually, there are many exceptions, like Catapult Turtle for instance which takes the current ATK.

Remember this is NOT a "Tribute" as Gift of the Martyr "Sends the card to the Graveyard" which is a different mechanic, and will check the ATK upon resolution which will be the original ATK.
 
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this sounds familiar to the Fusilier thread. however, I wont gum up this one too.

One question, though: Is there a clear way to tell which effects check the ATK/DEF stats on the field (like Catapult Turtle) and which ones check the ATK/DEF in the Graveyard (like Gift of the Martyr)?

Or, are we dependant still on a thousand separate rulings?
 
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Unfortunately it is a bit tricky.

People generally try to analyze the Tribute scenario by stating that the effect checks the card(s) in the Graveyard (say for Metamorphosis). Truthfully though, i does not check in the Graveyard.

From my observation, the "Tribute" mechanic has it's own way of checking whatever information it needs as the tribute is being performed.

My advice would be that if the effect states "Tribute" check the rulings to see how it works, and what infomation it looks for and when.

If the effect states "Send a card(s) to the Graveyard" it ALWAYS checks the card in the Graveyard.
 
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gotcha. Checking the rulings sounds slow in some situations, but understandable.

As for "sending to the Graveyard" ALWAYS meaning to check the card in the Graveyard: That's a pretty bold and definitive answer. I just want to be sure there isnt at least 1 exception to that rule, before I assume too much. Any knowledge out there as to an exception? Or, is the mechanic of the thing situated to prevent that?
 
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It may sound bold, but as a requirement for the effect to work, the cards must actually be sent into the Graveyard, that is not the case with Tribute effects. That is why i am stating that the effect does not necessarily check the info in the Graveyard. Tribute effects perform the check as part of the Tribute process.

If say Banisher were on the field, the Send effect would not work. Even Triggers such as Mystic Tomato and others are checked in the Graveyard.
 
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novastar said:
People generally try to analyze the Tribute scenario by stating that the effect checks the card(s) in the Graveyard (say for Metamorphosis). Truthfully though, i does not check in the Graveyard.

From my observation, the "Tribute" mechanic has it's own way of checking whatever information it needs as the tribute is being performed.

My advice would be that if the effect states "Tribute" check the rulings to see how it works, and what infomation it looks for and when.
Click to expand...

What about Soul Exchange and Metamorphosis?

I don't think you'd be able to Tribute an opponent's face-down monster with Metamorphosis, because you can't determine the Level and proabably don't have the same Leveled Fusion Monster in your Fusion Deck.
 
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See the problem is that most Tribute effects that i have seen which look for ATK values generally use the current ATK value (unless the effect specifically asks for original ATK).

Going by the idea that cards revert back to their original state when placed in the Graveyard, it would lead me to believe that the Tribute mechanic itself has a way of grabbing the information it needs during the actual process of Tributing. This does not neccessarily mean that it checks it in the Graveyard.

The "Send to the Graveyard" mechanic is slightly different in that it requires the card(s) to actually be placed in the Graveyard. Which can more easily explain a Graveyard check.
 
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http://www.cogonline.net/threads.9400]http://www.cogonline.net/threads.9400

this was the thread that talked about using Mtamorphasis and Soul Exchange together.

Assuming that the issue there was resolved to satisfaction, it looks like you can use Metamorphasis with Soul Exchange on your opponent's face down monster.

Only you would still be checking it from the field (I think) and if the Level didnt match with one of your Fusions, then the monster would not be Tributed, but Metamorphasis would resolve without effect
 
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My belief is that it is the Fusion Deck check that is performed at resolution, so the Tribute still occurs and Meta knows what to look for based on what was Tributed (as the info is checked when the Tribute is performed).

Since the Fusion Deck is an unknown Zone (like the Main Deck), you are forced to check it and possibly cause Meta to dissappear.

I know it sounds weird, it's just my thoughts. Which could be way off.
 
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that sounds strange. Reason I say that is it could be used to tribute a monster for no effect, on purpose. That smacks of the same problem with discarding a monster for TIV and calling a subtype that is not present on the field.

It feels like if that were allowed to happen (Tributing a Soul Exchange targetted monster for Metamorphasis) that it would be abusing the effect to make a makeShift Tribute to The Doomed.

That's why I think that you would have to check the level while their monster was still on the field. (or your face down monster, too, for that matter)
 
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Ah well this ruling says i'm wrong
If there is no monster with the same level as the Tributed monster in your Fusion Deck, then you cannot activate this card.
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I do however, think that it is in error. If you can Tribute a face-down and the Fusion Deck can't be manually searched through (meaning it should be unknown) then it would seem to contradict... but what's new...
 
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