Been thinking about complex chains, Standby Phase, and End Phase lately...

T

Tkwiget

Da Twiggy Man!
Lately I've been thinking of generating some scenarios that have complex chain blocks in the Standby Phase and End Phase.

So far all I've come up with is one interesting complex chain block in the End Phase.

Player A: 2300 Life Points
Player B: 200 Life Points

Player Fields:
Player A has a face up Ectoplasmer and Two-Man Cell Battle with a face up Dark Necrofear and Twin-Headed Behemoth in attack position. Player A has Gemini Elf in hand.

Player B has a face up Cyber Dragon, Treeborn Frog, and Spirit Reaper in defense position with a face down Mirror Force.

Actual Scenario:
Player A attacks Cyber Dragon with Dark Necrofear. Player B responds with Mirror Force. All of Player A's face up attack positioned monsters are destroyed. Player A moves to his End Phase. Dark Necrofear, Twin-Headed Behemoth, and Two-Man Cell Battle activate all at the same time.

Player A decides to make the Chain Link order this.

Link 1: Dark Necrofear
Link 2: Twin-Headed Behemoth
Link 3: Two-Man Cell Battle

Two-Man Cell Battle resolves and Special Summons Gemini Elf. When Dark Necrofear activates and resolves, it targets Spirit Reaper. At this point Spirit Reaper and Ectoplasmer activate at the same time. Player A controls both effects. Player A decides to resolve the chain block in this order.

Link 1: Spirit Reaper
Link 2: Ectoplasmer

Since both effects are continuous, they aren't being chained to one another. Player A is the Turn Player and can decide which effect is placed on the Chain Block first.

Question:
Did I resolve this scenario correctly or am I missing something?
 
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skey23 said:
They don't form a chain. They all activate and resolve separately.
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Crap you are right... my brain is on overload...

They would all activate in seperate chains... so keeping the same order...

Chain 1: Dark Necrofear

*once that resolves, Spirit Reaper is destroyed, no control of the order.

Chain 2: Twin-Headed Behemoth

Chain 3: Two-Man Cell Battle

Chain 4: Ectoplasmer

Of course i am leaving out all the timing to respond to all the events that occur here, but i think it should be commonly understood that you could for example, respond to Gemini Elf's Special Summon with Torry T forming yet another chain prior to Ectoplasmer's.
 
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Hmm...I'll have to try and come up with another one.

Btw, Nova, in the first chain, Ectoplasmer can't activate. If you read carefully, Player A would have no monsters on the field at the beginning of the End Phase. Also, Spirit Reaper will be taken control of by Dark Necrofear's effect after it resolves. That's how Spirit Reaper works. But then again, I didn't realize they all activated and resolved in seperate chain blocks until Skey posted. XD

I'll come up with a better scenario. =/
 
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I get what you are saying, but lets also point something out, to add more clarification.

Well it looks to me like as long as there is a monster present prior to activating Ectoplasmer it will and must be activated, and since it is activated after Two-Man Cell Battle resolves, Gemini Elf would now be on the field.

I would think that would make Ectoplasmer legal to activate afterwords. I'm not 100% sure on it, but i don't see anything to the contrary. However this ruling seems to point in that direction:

"If you have a face-up monster on your side of the field during the End Phase, you have to Tribute for "Ectoplasmer"'s effect."

I felt it was self-explainatory that Reaper would switch control during DN's resolution, then be immediately destroyed afterwords.
 
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Ectoplasmer will only activate if you have a monster face up on your field for it to activate.

With your chain block order you posted up, yes it will activate. In your original post before you editted it, you couldn't.

I'll think of a better scenario.
 
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krazykidpsx said:
I thoought it was any time during endphase, the card doesnt state at the beggining of the endphase.
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We already know that, but with his first post editted it, you can't understand what I was getting at.

He was throwing it into one chain block that's created during Player A's turn when he doesn't have any face up monsters. Ectoplasmer will never activate if you don't have a face up monster.

Btw people, lets not get nit-picky and bring in unnecessary cards into the discussion.
 
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Tkwiget said:
Hmm...I'll have to try and come up with another one.

Btw, Nova, in the first chain, Ectoplasmer can't activate. If you read carefully, Player A would have no monsters on the field at the beginning of the End Phase. Also, Spirit Reaper will be taken control of by Dark Necrofear's effect after it resolves. That's how Spirit Reaper works. But then again, I didn't realize they all activated and resolved in seperate chain blocks until Skey posted. XD

I'll come up with a better scenario. =/
Click to expand...

You aren't looking at the cards properly. They aren't "Triggered" when you enter the End Phase, they are effects that you will have to take care of before you can exit the End Phase. That being said, you can choose the order that you will proceed with things as far as you are able to satisfy each of the effects. If you have an active Ectoplasmer on the field during the End Phase you may certainly decide to otherwise dispose of the monster without being forced into tributing for Ectoplasmer but you may not leave the End Phase until you have either a) tributed for Ectoplasmer or b) don't have any monster on the field and thus can't satisfy Ectoplasmer. You can't say, "Now before I summon for Two-Man Cell Battle I'll attempt to activate Ectoplasmer while I've got nothing on the field."

You could choose to tribute your Spirit Reaper for Ectoplasmer before the opponent could bring back their Dark Necrofear.
 
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Tkwiget said:
Lately I've been thinking of generating some scenarios that have complex chain blocks in the Standby Phase and End Phase.

So far all I've come up with is one interesting complex chain block in the End Phase.

Player A: 2300 Life Points
Player B: 200 Life Points

Player Fields:
Player A has a face up Ectoplasmer and Two-Man Cell Battle with a face up Dark Necrofear and Twin-Headed Behemoth in attack position. Player A has Gemini Elf in hand.

Player B has a face up Cyber Dragon, Treeborn Frog, and Spirit Reaper in defense position with a face down Mirror Force.

Actual Scenario:
Player A attacks Cyber Dragon with Dark Necrofear. Player B responds with Mirror Force. All of Player A's face up attack positioned monsters are destroyed. Player A moves to his End Phase. Dark Necrofear, Twin-Headed Behemoth, and Two-Man Cell Battle activate all at the same time.

Player A decides to make the Chain Link order this.

Link 1: Dark Necrofear
Link 2: Twin-Headed Behemoth
Link 3: Two-Man Cell Battle

Two-Man Cell Battle resolves and Special Summons Gemini Elf. When Dark Necrofear activates and resolves, it targets Spirit Reaper. At this point Spirit Reaper and Ectoplasmer activate at the same time. Player A controls both effects. Player A decides to resolve the chain block in this order.

Link 1: Spirit Reaper
Link 2: Ectoplasmer

Since both effects are continuous, they aren't being chained to one another. Player A is the Turn Player and can decide which effect is placed on the Chain Block first.

Question:
Did I resolve this scenario correctly or am I missing something?
Click to expand...
I'm not looking at the previous posts. I'm not looking at the previous posts. I'm not looking at the previous posts.

Okay, I don't see any reason why Dark Necrofear, Twin-Headed Behemoth and Two-Man Cell Battle would form a chain. They should resolve seperatly, in the order of the turn players choice.

In fact, after looking at this scenario for a lot longer then I should have, wouldn't all these effect resolve in the order of the Turn Players choice? Except maybe for Necrofear? :haveaday_
 
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Digital Jedi said:
I'm not looking at the previous posts. I'm not looking at the previous posts. I'm not looking at the previous posts.

Okay, I don't see any reason why Dark Necrofear, Twin-Headed Behemoth and Two-Man Cell Battle would form a chain. They should resolve seperatly, in the order of the turn players choice.

In fact, after looking at this scenario for a lot longer then I should have, wouldn't all these effect resolve in the order of the Turn Players choice? Except maybe for Necrofear? :haveaday_
Click to expand...

Yes, you are right. Basically you start with the Turn Player who may resolve one of his effects, or he may pass and allow the non-turn player to resolve one of his own effects, the non-turn player may take that opportunity or may also pass at which point it becomes mandatory for the Turn Player to choose and resolve one of his own effects. After which the regular rules of chaining and response chains apply and then you repeat the process for each additional effect that still needs to be taken care of.
 
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I see you're doing your homework TK...and when I suggested you study up on these topics it seems you took it to heart. Pay attention to what anthonyj has posted about choosing in what order to resolve, thats where most people get confuzled in the standby phase end end phase.
 
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Alright, I have come up with a scenario for the Standby Phase that I can't quite figure out the answer. Not sure if this scenario is difficult to figure out or not. I can't come up with the solution for some odd reason. I'm a little confused I guess.

Player A has a Sangan removed from play from the effect of Dimensionhole, Blast Juggler and Nimble Momonga in face up attack position with Player B's Kiseitai equipped to Nimble Momonga.

Player B has a face up Dark Snake Syndrome and Germ Infection that's equipped to Nimble Momonga. Player B also has Player A's Heavy Storm removed from play with Lightforce Sword and it's the last Standby Phase for the card to come back.


It's Player A's turn.

Player A draws and then proceeds to his Standby Phase. Player A resolves Dimensionhole and brings back Sangan to the field. Blast Juggler resolves and tributes himself off to destroy Sangan and Nimble Momonga. Germ Infection is destroyed via Game Mechanics, Dark Snake Syndrome does 200 points of damage to both players, and Lightforce Sword resolves to return Heavy Storm back to Player A's hand.

Did I resolve this correctly??

This stuff would be a lot easier to study up on if they didn't word most End Phase and Standby Phase cards with the word "during" in the card text. =/
 
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Player A has the following effects that he can choose the order for: Lightforce Sword, Dimensionhole and Blast Juggler (and obviously to use Blast Juggler he'll have to resolve Dimensionhole).

Player B has: Kiseitai, Dark Snake Syndrome and Germ Infection.

Remember that it is optional for the Turn Player to choose and resolve one of his available effect or he may pass, the non-turn player may then choose to resolve one of his own or pass back at which point the Turn Player would have to choose one of his effects to resolve. Rinse and repeat for each available effect.

In your example the non-turn player would have to agree to resolve his Dark Snake Syndrome before Lightforce Sword was resolved by the Turn Player (other than that you describe everything quite nicely - though you forgot to mention that Kisetai will also be destroyed by game mechanic along with Germ Infection).

Remember that each player has the decision about effects that they are the controller for and that the Turn Player will have to resolve his own effects first unless he passes and the non-turn player accepts the opportunity to resolve one of his own while the Turn Player still has effects left to resolve.
 
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Lightforce Sword's effect is controlled by Player B in my scenario. Player B's Lightforce Sword has Player A's Heavy Storm removed from play. Player A doens't control the effect of Lightforce Sword.

So is this stuff more on a basic level of what Priority is? I remember getting the last question on my L2 test wrong both times I took it and it was dealing with Infinite Dismissal and Level Conversion Lab in the End Phase.

=======================

How about this scenario.

Player A has Rescue Cat and Limiter Removal in hand. Player A has a face up attack Spear Dragon with a face up DNA Surgery and has declared Machine with it. Player A also has a Vampire Lord removed from play via the effect of Interdimensional Matter Transporter. Player A has a face down Micro Ray.

Player B has a face up defense Stone Statue of the Aztecs on the field. Player B has a Strike Ninja removed from play via Strike Ninja's effect. Player B has Jinzo, D.D. Survivor, and Fusilier Dragon, the Dual-Mode Beast removed from play. Player B has a face down Return from the Different Dimension.

It's Player A's turn.
Player A has 4600 Life Points.
Player B has 7600 Life Points.

Player A summons Rescue Cat and sends it to the Graveyard to Special Summon another Rescue Cat and Catnipped Kitty to the field in attack position. Player A activates his second Rescue Cat and Special Summons his last Rescue Cat and The Wicked Worm Beast in attack position. Player A activates his third Rescue Cat and Special Summons two The Wicked Worm Beast in attack position. Player A activates Micro Ray and targets Player B's Stone Statue of the Aztecs and decreases Stone Statue of the Aztecs' defense to zero. Player A attacks Stone Statue of the Aztecs with Spear Dragon and activates Limiter Removal in the Damage Step.

Player B's Stone Statue of the Aztecs is destroyed and he loses 3800 Life Points. Player A declares an attack with his first The Wicked Worm Beast. Player B responds with Return from the Different Dimension. Player B Special Summons Jinzo, D.D. Survivor, and Fusilier Dragon, the Dual-Mode Beast in attack position.

Player A moves to his End Phase now.

Player A controls Limiter Removal, all of the Rescue Cat effects, Interdimensional Matter Transporter, Micro Ray, and all of the The Wicked Worm Beast effects.

Player B controls Strike Ninja and Return from the Different Dimension.

Player A chooses to resolve Interdimensional Matter Transporter first, then Micro Ray, then one The Wicked Worm Beast first. Passes to Player B. Player B resolves Strike Ninja. Passes to Player A. Player A resolves one Rescue Cat, which has its effect attached to Catnipped Kitty. Catnipped Kitty is destroyed. Player B has to activate and resolve D.D. Survivor. D.D. Survivor is Special Summoned onto Player B's field in face up attack position. Passes to Player A. Player A resolves the remaining effects of the Rescue Cat and the two remaining The Wicked Worm Beast are destroyed, then Limiter Removal which destroys Spear Dragon.

Did I resolve this situation correctly? It's kind of hard to follow, but I did the best I could to illustrate what's going on in the situation.

@_@ I'm kinda confuzled about some of this stuff. However, I'm not going to simply give up on this either.

EDIT: Got rid of field errors in the scenario.
 
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Player A ran out of monster spots waaaay back at the beginning...lol. You have 6 monsters on the field for Player A.

"Spear Dragon", "Sangan", "Catnipped Kitty", 3x "The Wicked Worm Beast".


Also, Player B will only be able to resolve one effect at a time when Player A passes to them. You have Player B resolving multiple effects at a time.

Also, Player A is the ONLY player who MUST resolve an effect if the double pass is done. This is because Player A is the Turn Player and they initiate all of the passes.
 
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