bottomless TH vs. dark world monsters

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mjlippsdc

New Member
With Graceful Charity coming back, I was wondering this.

If my opponent discards 2 dark world monsters that special summon to the field can I ......

A) activate Bottomless Trap Hole

B) if I can do the above, when do i activate it (ie. when the first one special summons to the field or the last one)

C) depending on B) will BTH destroy all the monsters special summoned or will it only get the one that I activate BTH after?

I hope spmeone can help with this, I searched and couldn't find a Graceful Charity reference concerning BTH and dark world.

Thank You for your time
 
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Yes you can activate BTH, you would only be able to remove 1 of the 2 Dark World monster in that case, so you would choose on which of them you would activate it for.
 
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If they discard 2 Dark World monsters for "Graceful Charity" this is what would happen, if both of those monsters had the Special Summon effect. ("Beiige" and "Sillva" for example)

Both monsters effects will activate at the same time when "Graceful Charity" resolves. The controlling player will decide which order to Special Summon them in via a SEGOC chain. We'll say they want to bring out "Sillva" 1st, just in case the opponent has anything nasty for them...lol. So they put "Beiige" on the chain as Link 1, then "Sillva" as Link 2. Resolve in reverse order. "Sillva" is Special Summoned 1st. The opponent CANNOT respond to this summon because the chain is still resolving. "Beiige" is now Special Summoned to the field. NOW the opponent can respond with "Torrential Tribute" or "Bottomless Trap Hole". If they respond with "Bottomless Trap Hole" it will ONLY remove the "Beiige" since it was the last monster to be Special Summoned.

Hope this helps!
 
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skey23 said:
If they discard 2 Dark World monsters for "Graceful Charity" this is what would happen, if both of those monsters had the Special Summon effect. ("Beiige" and "Sillva" for example)

Both monsters effects will activate at the same time when "Graceful Charity" resolves. The controlling player will decide which order to Special Summon them in via a SEGOC chain. We'll say they want to bring out "Sillva" 1st, just in case the opponent has anything nasty for them...lol. So they put "Beiige" on the chain as Link 1, then "Sillva" as Link 2. Resolve in reverse order. "Sillva" is Special Summoned 1st. The opponent CANNOT respond to this summon because the chain is still resolving. "Beiige" is now Special Summoned to the field. NOW the opponent can respond with "Torrential Tribute" or "Bottomless Trap Hole". If they respond with "Bottomless Trap Hole" it will ONLY remove the "Beiige" since it was the last monster to be Special Summoned.

Hope this helps!
Click to expand...

If this is the case, then how does BTH remove all monsters with ATK 1500 or more when Cyber Jar is flipped?
 
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HorusMaster said:
If this is the case, then how does BTH remove all monsters with ATK 1500 or more when Cyber Jar is flipped?
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"Cyber Jar" summons all the monsters at once by its single effect. Dark World monsters discarded at the same time are each summoned by their own individual effect, so it forms a SEGOC.

The important thing to remember is that it is the effect of the Dark World Monsters that is Special Summoning them (one effect per monster, thus the SEGOC), NOT the effect of "Graceful Charity".
 
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What anthonyj said isnt true in a sense. While he is right in the scenario he is describing using the same logic to explain this scenario does not work. now lets review.

segoc Simultaneous effects go on chain

the effects even though they are ss 1 they all go off together without any chance for another card to chain to them. They get put into a chain and resolve normally. Since you cant interrupt a chain no matter what speed it is you can only respond to the last thing to happen from said chain aka the last summoning. You can only respond to that with bth and thus only remove the last one from play. Making sense now?

i should know i looked into it a lot after a similar thing was on the ude forums not too long ago.
 
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Where exactly has it been stated that multiple Vampire Lords would form a chain? They would each create their own chain. And thus each would come to the field seperately and each could be the target of a Bottomless Trap Hole.

SEGOC is when multiple Speed 1 effects get triggered and thus are involved in a single chain by circumstance. Like 2 Sangans being sent to the Graveyard by a Dark Hole. Vampire Lord is just going to wait for his opportunity to resurrect. Are you operating under the belief that Vampire Lord immediately triggers when you move into the Standby Phase? There is a difference between SEGOC and effects that must be resolved during a Phase. Multiple mandatory effects in a Phase do not create a SEGOC. They are handled in the order chosen by the Controller of the effects, usually in their own chains.

Please give me some link to where it has been stated that multiple Vampire Lords would resurrect in SEGOC?
 
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I wasnt talking about your VL situation. im sorry if i confused some people i meant that you werent right in a sense as in you were but it doesnt apply to this specific scenario as slither thought it did.

Sometimes i find it hard to explain things and it comes off strange sounding. Didnt mean to get ya worked up anto. i will reword it now.
 
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ah, but there is a difference. The controlling player can choose to resolve one effect before the other, separately. Its similar to how a player can wait till the end of the Standby Phase to decide whether or not they want to pay for Messenger of Peace, after having resolved other effects, like Mirage of Nightmare. It isn't a force me immediately kind of thing. Each effect can resolve separately, so long as it happens inside of the same Phase.
 
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Kyhotae said:
So how exactly is 2 "Vampire Lord"s activating in the same Standby Phase different from two "Sangan"s activating at the same time when sent to the Graveyard. The effects are activated simultaneously (as soon as you get to the Standby Phase), so they HAVE to go on a chain.

http://www.upperdeckentertainment.com/yugioh/en/faq_advanced.aspx

Under "Simultaneous Effects"...
Click to expand...

Arriving at a given phase does not immediately trigger effects that are mandatory in that phase.
 
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