Card of Safe Return and Manticore of Darkness

[Thousand Eyes]

Card of Safe Return is face up and I am using the infinit Manticore stall to draw cards.

What happens if I run out of cards in my deck but still keep using the Manticore stall (I know its illegal to stall) But what would happen because card of safe return is on the field?

Do I lose because I cant draw for CoSR
or
do I not lose until my next draw phase and am free to continue using the effect of manticore?

 

[Raigekick]

If you ran out of cards to draw, then you lose the duel (Picking up card is a different story). However, using the effect of CofSR is optional. You do not have to draw if you don't want to. In addition, you cannot force your self to lose because you want to draw a card when your deck has ran out.

I'm just curious on how you pull Manticore of Darkness stall combo?

 

[Jake]

I thought that you lose, only if you're unable to draw a card in the Draw Phase of your turn. I do believe I read that somewhere.

 

[Dlanaan]

You lose at any point where you are required to draw and cannot. It does not need to be in the Draw Phase.

The combo would be: 2 Manticores of Darkness, 1 Card of Safe Return, 1 full set of Exodia. Send Manticore to the Graveyard with Card of Safe Return on the field. Special Summon it using the other Manticore (or another Beast type) draw a card. Special Summon the second Manticore using the first and draw a card. Rinse and repeat until you have Exodia.

 

[densetsu_x]

Just to add a little something to the combo mentioned above. It can be a One Turn Kill combo provided that you don't end up with both Manticores in your hand (unless you have a way to send 1 to the graveyard which is a bit harder in the advanced format).

To do it, all you need is to make sure you have an adequate number of beast/beast-warrior/winged beast cards when you build your deck. Then when you draw all you need are these 2 cards in hand:

Painful Choice
Card of Safe Return

Activate "Painful Choice". Pick both Manticores and say 3 "Mad Dog of Darkness" (or 3 other beast based creatures). No matter what you get, a Manticore (if not both) will be in the graveyard and you'll guarentee have 1 beast based card in hand. (If you have 1 Manticore in hand when you activate "Painful Choice", try to make sure you have 1 other card in your deck that your opponent will likely give to you so you won't be stuck with both in hand).

Now, activate "Card of Safe Return". End your turn. Resolve the effect of a Manticore in your graveyard by using the card you were given from "Painful Choice". Now resolve the effect of the other Manticore by using the Manticore that was just on the field. Keep repeating until you draw Exodia. If you were the player who went first, there is nothing your opponent can do to stop you since they'd never have the chance to set anything. From experience, this is harder to pull off than the Scientist OTK, but it easier to pull off than the Gearfried/BD-Elma/Royal Library combo.

Lastly, related to "stalling". You can't stall out with this combo because if you do it, you are supposed to go through the whole combo once to show your opponent how it is done, then state how many times you intend to do it and then in this case, simply draw the cards. Your opponent (if he had the chance to play) can then say "after x times, I activate MST" or something like that. You can't take forever to do the combo once, and then redo the steps over and over hoping to get a stall victory. Your opponent can claim you are stalling and you'd potentially lose then for that.

- Andrew

 

[masterwoo0]

Whenever there is a "combination" that can be repeated in a loop, you must first demonstrate that move, then state how many times you will perform the loop.  On that much we are in agreement.

If the combo is not negated due to your opponent being unable to do so, once you have completed your number of turns stated, you may then REPEAT the loop once more by again stating how many times you wish to perform it.

You are not limited to how many times you can perform the loop (as long as you can complete the effect).  You are only required to state how many times "the initial loop" will be performed, and then each subsequent loop.

When it comes to "Stalling",there must be, as a result of your loop, an effect that causes something to occur "positively", such as "drawing a card" or causing life point gain/loss, destroying a monster on the field, etc... 

Stalling would be called, as an example, if say the player where just cycling a card in and out of the Graveyard and there was no resulting action to the loop, other than returning a monster to your hand, deck or field, only to repeat the movement over again, and again, and again.....

Also, in this situation the player cannot force himself to draw a card if it is his own effect, and it would cause him to lose the duel. I believe it is the same principle as having only 2000 life points left and trying to use Injection Fairy Lily's effect.