creature swap and scapegoat

S

StRiKe_NiNjA

Dimension Shift Ninja
we all know this combo is very nifty. changing scapegoat into attack mode then swap your attack mode scapegoat token for your opponent's black luster soldier-envoy of the beggining.

but can u really change the battle position of a monster b4 the monsters gets swaped?

scapegoat:
you can't normal summon, special summon, flip summon, etc. during the turn scapegoat was activated.

wouldn't that apply for creature swap as well?

creature swap:
The battle position of these cards cannot change during the turn this card is activated.
 
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The Goat Tokens are summoned in defense position when Scapegoat is activated.  So of course, you cannot change their position manually during the turn they are summoned.

The only option you have is using some type of effect to force a Token into attack before swapping it, or wait one turn and hope you have enough Tokens left to use.

Having said that, you survive to the second turn after summoning the Goats, switch one to attack, NOW you activate Creature Swap and fortunately for you, your opponent was overconfident enough to leave Black Luster Soldier on the field alone.  The switch is made, attack accomplished, and hopefully your opponent is several life points lower....
 
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my question was can you change the battle position of Scapegoat tokens b4 Creature Swap is activated?

Creature Swap
The battle position of these cards cannot change during the turn this card is activated.
 
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No, this is what i mean. Read my example and you'll know what i mean...

Can you Normal Summon, Special Summon, or Flip Summon BEFORE or AFTER Scapegoat's during this same turn Scapegoat was activated. I think it's safe to say No, you cannot.

Now back to Creature Swap.
Can you change the battle position of monster during the same turn that you intend to swap with your opponent BEFORE the activation Creature Swap during the same turn?
 
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Of course you can change the battle position.  This isnt like the statement on Scapegoat where you cant summon a monster and Scapegoat also.  You cant summon ANYTHING before or after Scapegoat is activated during that turn (Remember though, a "Set" is not a summon...).

They only mean the position of the "swapped monster's" cant be changed after the resolution.  If you get a defense position BLS, he stays that way.  You cant switch him to attack, you cant flip summon him either if he is face down.
 
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I know that you can't change the battle position when the creature are "swapped".

But Creature Swap says, "during the turn this card was activated" meaning the whole turn wouldn't it? not just when Creature Swap resolves then you try to change the battle position afterwards which you can't.
 
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As I stated, it is only referring to what happens to the monsters AFTER they are swapped.  You can do whatever you legally can do with your monsters prior to activating Creature Swap.

You cannot change the Battle position of monsters after they are have been swapped.

You can change the Battle Position of monsters before activating Creature Swap.


You're getting the sequence messed up.  "These monsters" is talking about the Swapped monsters after resolution of Creature Swaps effect (Monsters switching sides), not before its activated.
 
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I guess it was the wording of Creature Swap that threw me off ya know. But, I guess you're right. "These cards" makes the biggest difference comparing my ruling knowledge to Scapegoat. Thanks.
 
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This is confusing. Let's make this short.

If I summon Scapegoat, I can't manually change its mode the same turn.
If I use Creature Swap on a token, I can't manually change its mode immediately after Creature Swap.

Is this what the 2 of you are talking about?
 
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