decree vs. emergency provisions

B

branas

New Member
player A: summons berserk gorilla
player B: responds with bottomless trap hole
player A: chains royal decree
player B: chains emergency provisions

does gorilla get destroyed by bth?
because decree negates effects of traps ON THE FIELD and
bth isn't on the field because e.provisions sent it to graveyard
as a cost.
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
While this card is face-up on the field, negate the effects of all Trap Cards on the field except this card.
Click to expand...

it says "negate the effects". you can't negate a resolution.
it says "on the field". if decree has not resolved, it's effect is
not yet active. so it cannot "see" the trap on the field (in the chain).
AFTER e.provisions resolves, there is no more BTH on the field,
though it's effect is on the chain.
THEN decree resolves, negating EFFECTS of traps ON THE FIELD.
BTH is NOT on the field, so how can it be negated?

if you guys are 100% you're right, then this HAS to be erattaed.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
branas said:
it says "negate the effects". you can't negate a resolution.
it says "on the field". if decree has not resolved, it's effect is
not yet active. so it cannot "see" the trap on the field (in the chain).
AFTER e.provisions resolves, there is no more BTH on the field,
though it's effect is on the chain.
THEN decree resolves, negating EFFECTS of traps ON THE FIELD.
BTH is NOT on the field, so how can it be negated?

if you guys are 100% you're right, then this HAS to be erattaed.
Click to expand...
Royal Decree does not do anything to effects of Trap Cards. You can even activate traps with Royal Decree active on the field. It's what demarcates him from Jinzo, as his effect prevents both activation.

"On the field" is specifically referring to Royal Decree's location, it has nothing to do with the traps it's negating.

And by the time Bottomless Trap Hole goes to resolve, Royal Decree will very much be active, and any trap effects following it on the chain will be negated. You can very much negate the resolution of a card. If you chain Royal Decree to ten traps, all ten traps will be negated wen the chain goes to resolve.

Also, Royal Decree's effect is not to be confused with Skill Drain's. It specifically says to negate the effects of face-up Effect Monsters on the field. Royal Decree does not refer to where the traps its negating must be located, only to their effects (effects activated on the field are on the field whether the card is or not). There's no need for an errata, because it very specifically says what it does.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
"On the field" is specifically referring to Royal Decree's location, it has nothing to do with the traps it's negating.
Click to expand...
A link to your source for this information, please?
While this card is face-up on the field, negate the effects of all Trap Cards on the field except this card.
Click to expand...
If the bolded text were removed, you'd be right, DJ. But as it stands, I'm quite unconvinced.

<EDIT: It occurred to me that the polite thing to do, for any forum members who may still be trying to master the English language (which, given the inconsistancies of this language, may be just about everyone), would be to explain the concept of the adjective phrase. An adjective phrase consists of a preposition and an object, along with any and all modifiers of said object. The bolded text is a prepositional phrase. When a prepositional phrase directly follows a noun, this usually means that the prepositional phrase is an adjective phrase modifying the noun it follows. In this case, "on the field" modifies "Trap Cards", meaning that Royal Decree only negates the effects of Trap Cards if they are on the field.>
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You could spend a decade trying to make the "perfect text" and instead of accepting it, people would continue to look for a loop hole where there is none, or claim the text is incomplete.

Royal Decree negates Trap Card "effects", not the Trap Card itself..
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Digital Jedi said:
Royal Decree does not do anything to effects of Trap Cards.
Click to expand...
oh, so the text "negate the effects of all Trap Cards" doesn't
mean that it does something (negates) to the effects of trap cards?!

"On the field" is specifically referring to Royal Decree's location, it has nothing to do with the traps it's negating.
Click to expand...
i'd like to believe that my english is not that bad.
from the text "negate the effects of all Trap Cards on the field except this card" i see that decree nagates the effects of all trap cards ON THE FIELD, except this card (decree) which obviously
IS on the field (it's continous,and even the first part of the text says while it (decree) is on the field)

so, it specificaly says that it negates (the effects of) traps ON THE FIELD.
that's what it says. if anyone has some ruling, please point it out.
it does not say it negates the effects of traps that were at some point on the field.
You can very much negate the resolution of a card.
Click to expand...
officially: "Resolution" is when you carry out the effects of a card.
this is where i might be wrong, (i'm not an english expert), but
i've never heard of "negating the resolution" in this game, and
have heard many times "negating the effect"
Royal Decree does not refer to where the traps its negating must be located, only to their effects (effects activated on the field are on the field whether the card is or not).
Click to expand...
first, are we even looking at the same card, lol, and second,
effects are never on the field.no such thing.only cards can be
on the field.

if i'm wrong at anything, please correct me.
if there is a ruling, even a similar one from which we could see
how all of this works,please let me know.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
i'd like to believe that my english is not that bad.
Click to expand...
You made no error in reading the card.

Konami made an error in writing the card. They wrote it as something different from what they meant.

The answer to your question is in DaGuy's post.
No, It modifies "effects". "Of all trap cards" is an extension of effect, in this case, and on the field is not part of this extension.
Click to expand...

In this, DaGuy clears up the grammatical error Konami made. Konami intended for the words "on the field" to refer to the effect of the Trap Card, not the card itself.

You could spend a decade trying to make the "perfect text" and instead of accepting it, people would continue to look for a loop hole where there is none,
Click to expand...
Nobody attempted to find a loophole. The loophole simply was there.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Jason_C said:
Nobody attempted to find a loophole. The loophole simply was there.
Click to expand...
It's only a loophole if you attempt to exploit it.

If I see a Plasma Screen TV, Priced at 2500.00, sitting side by side with the same make and model, both brand and fresh out of the box with no defects, yet the Dealer inadvertantly mismarked the second one as 250.00, instead of 2500.00, if I know that the true price is 2500.00, attempting to purchase it at 250.00 would be trying to take advantage of a "loophole" in advertising a price.

In this case, you know that Royal Decree negates the effects of Trap Card's, and once a Normal Trap Card is activated, the card itself is only a Shell, and unless the "Trap Card's" activation is negated, it doesnt matter where it goes once it is activated, as the effect remains on the field, and that is what Royal Decree negates.

The fact that there is a lack of a card to represent the Effect, is not relevant, and no Judge should rule that Royal Decree cannot negate the effect of a Trap Card since it is no longer on the field at resolution. Jinzo can still negate Waboku if it is removed from the field, and Jinzo/Call of the Haunted is chained somewhere down the line to its activation.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
you know that Royal Decree negates the effects of Trap Card's
Click to expand...
False statement. I did not know that until DaGuy linked me to a ruling pointing it out. And how was I to know? The card text says that Royal Decree negates the effects of Trap Cards on the field. I simply assumed it meant exactly what it said. I made NO effort to exploit the card's "loophole". I have always played Royal Decree as only negating trap cards on the field, and up until today, I never knew this was wrong. Thus, I did not search for or exploit any loophole. The card text was written inaccurately, and so my understanding of the card was inaccurate. End of story.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Jason_C said:
False statement. I did not know that until DaGuy linked me to a ruling pointing it out. And how was I to know? The card text says that Royal Decree negates the effects of Trap Cards on the field. I simply assumed it meant exactly what it said. I made NO effort to exploit the card's "loophole". I have always played Royal Decree as only negating trap cards on the field, and up until today, I never knew this was wrong. Thus, I did not search for or exploit any loophole. The card text was written inaccurately, and so my understanding of the card was inaccurate. End of story.
Click to expand...
Ummm, aside from the fact that "you" is not Jason_C, and merely a representative of whomever may feel that Royal Decree did not negate a Trap Card Effect Removed from the Field, it was unfortunate that your last post could be quoted to help illustrate that.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
branas said:
oh, so the text "negate the effects of all Trap Cards" doesn't
mean that it does something (negates) to the effects of trap cards?!
Click to expand...
I mistyped. I meant activation, not resolution, as my next sentence makes mention off.

Boiled down, the problem arising here is from the way Skill Drain is phrased. Decree is not phrased this way. The effects of traps remain on the field even after the card is removed from the field. Think of situations where cards are destroyed mid-chain but their effects resolve regardless. Where are those effects? They are not attached to the card and resolving in the Graveyard are they? The effect very plainly and simply says it negates effects of traps on the field, not the effects of face-up traps on the field. There's a significant difference here that shouldn't be overlooked.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Digital Jedi said:
The effect very plainly and simply says it negates effects of traps on the field, not the effects of face-up traps on the field. There's a significant difference here that shouldn't be overlooked.
Click to expand...
But, as I pointed out, Jinzo "states" that he negates the effect of face-up Trap Cards on the field, yet he will still negate the effect of Waboku if Call of the Haunted is chaned to its Activation and Jinzo is selected, and Emergency Provisions is chained to Call of the Haunted and sends Waboku.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I've always took the last sentence in Jinzo's errated text to indicate that face-up Trap Cards were specifically referring to Continuous Trap cards already active prior to Jinzo's presence.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
@DaGuyWitBluGlasses: thanx for the link. i guess if mister schultz
says the effect stays on the field, thats how we should rule it.
i just hope that someone from UDE would consider puting this
info in the future rulebooks, so everyone would know where the
effects are located, and where the cards are located at a particular point.

@Digital Jedi: heh,we had a bit of misunderstanding there, lol.
but, thanx for your thoughts on this, i think this is clear now, right :wink:
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
branas said:
@DaGuyWitBluGlasses: thanx for the link. i guess if mister schultz
says the effect stays on the field, thats how we should rule it.
i just hope that someone from UDE would consider puting this
info in the future rulebooks, so everyone would know where the
effects are located, and where the cards are located at a particular point.
Click to expand...
Well...
http://www.upperdeckentertainment.com/yugioh/en/faq_gameplay.aspx
Look under "Negate" vs. "Destroy"
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Interesting. I had this done to me before. I had 3 monster on the field with Royal Decree on the field. My foe was playing a burn. (And thus Royal Decree was a pain in the ass for him, especially since Gravity Bind is being negated) When I attacked, he activated Mirror Force, which I said okay fine. (At first, I thought he wanted to get rid of it for Treeborn Frog or something) Then he chained EP and send it to the graveyard and told me now Mirror Force effect can go through. I called the judge and said I got the better ruling by him saying what you guys said. But he said the judge was wrong and I told him I see his theory and I'll look up on it to see if he was right.

I guess he was wrong. (At least he gained the 3000LP for sending Gravity Bind, Mirror Force, and Nightmare Wheel, although it didn't do much...)
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Digital Jedi said:
Royal Decree does not do anything to effects of Trap Cards. You can even activate traps with Royal Decree active on the field. It's what demarcates him from Jinzo, as his effect prevents both activation.
Click to expand...

Just a note, I think you mistyped DJ. RD does something to effects AND you CAN activate traps with RD on the field.

ROYAL DECREE is quoted to have said:
While this card is face-up on the field, negate the effects of all Trap Cards on the field except this card.
Click to expand...

ENGLISH is a HARD language, add that Japanese words can have different meanings and you have problems.

In the text, the word NEGATE "targets" the word effects, in that sentance. EFFECTS "links" with Trap Cards to say "The EFFECT of Trap Cards (where the effect is on the field) as opposed to monster or Spell cards. The rest is a qualifier that it negates the EFFECTS of such cards that are ON THE FIELD; or, the EFFECTS that are ON the field. Such it will not negate Dark Coffin.

RD is NEGATING the EFFECTS of all trap cards on the field except it's self! The EFFECTS that are on the field, not the cards themselves. THe part saying "Trap Cards" is not implying the Trap Card on the field, it is a description of what type of an effect (Trap Card) is being negated.

Sorry, its been YEARS since I had grammor classes and can not reimber the correct titles of adjictives and such. However, I think I have gotten the point accross. :D
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top