Desert Sunlight and Creature Swap

BobDoily

BobDoily

New Member
Okay here's the situation.

I activate Creature Swap to give my opponent say a Sheep Token.
They have one face-down monster, say Mask of Darkness or Magician of Faith.
They Chain with Desert Sunlight.

So his monster goes to face-up defense position. Then the switch occurs so at the end of the chain I have his monster in face-up defense position on my side of the field.

Now here's the question. Who has the right to the flip-effect. It was triggered on my opponent's side of the field but the monster at the end of the chain before the new chain starts with the flip-effect is on my side of the field. I forget is this case controller at the time of it being flipped or at the time of chain resolution?
 
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It activated while the monster was on their side so I imagine that they're deemed to have activated it and so they will gain the benefit, can't say that I'm certain but I'm fairly sure.
 
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the thing is it was never activated on your opponent's side of the field... It was fliped face up on your opponent's side of the field. Once the current chain resolves (Creature Swap & Desert Sunlight) Magician of Faith initiates a new chain and activates (on your side of the field). Based on this information I would have to assume that you get the effect of Magician of Faith but I'm not entirely sure.

<_<
>_>
"OH JOHN!"
 
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Desert Sunlight Flips Magician of Faith face-up. Once its determined to be a "Flip:", the effect would start a new chain after the initial chain resolved. I dont think the fact that the monster changed sides has any bearing on determining who gets the effect because it was flipped face-up on the controlling players side.

The player who activated Creature Swap did not activate any effect that would have caused MoF to go face-up, so he is not the beneficiary of the effect, only the new controller of the card itself.

How much different would the situation be if the monster flipped face-up was Mataza or Horus LV4? They dont have a flip effect, but there still is an effect that must be resolved before Creature Swap, due to its continuous nature when they are face-up..
 
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All you have to do is look at the Enemy Controller rulings and you will see, that whichever player controls the card at the time the effect is manually activated or triggered is deemed the controller of the effect.

In otherwords, masterwooO is correct.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
Desert Sunlight Flips Magician of Faith face-up. Once its determined to be a "Flip:", the effect would start a new chain after the initial chain resolved. I dont think the fact that the monster changed sides has any bearing on determining who gets the effect because it was flipped face-up on the controlling players side.

The player who activated Creature Swap did not activate any effect that would have caused MoF to go face-up, so he is not the beneficiary of the effect, only the new controller of the card itself.

How much different would the situation be if the monster flipped face-up was Mataza or Horus LV4? They dont have a flip effect, but there still is an effect that must be resolved before Creature Swap, due to its continuous nature when they are face-up..
Click to expand...

mataza is a continous effect and does not activate in a chain, it is simply there. THAT is the difference. I'm not saying I disagree with you, I'm just pointing out the difference.
 
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Raijinili said:
The Enemy Controller rulings don't help. All of those are after the effect is placed on the chain block.

In this case, the flip effect monster has not placed its effect on the chain block.
Click to expand...


You got a good point. But if Magician of Faith flips up on Player2's side of the field, then is swapped to Player1's, who gets the effect?
 
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Raijinili said:
The Enemy Controller rulings don't help. All of those are after the effect is placed on the chain block.

In this case, the flip effect monster has not placed its effect on the chain block.
Click to expand...
It doesn't matter...

Even though the effect must wait for the Chain Block to be emptied to be placed, all that matters is who was the controller of the object at the time the effect was triggered.

The effect of MoF triggers when it is flipped, it only matters which player controlled it then, not when it it is placed on the Chain Block.
 
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Even though the effect must wait for the Chain Block to be emptied to be placed, all that matters is who was the controller of the object at the time the effect was triggered.
Click to expand...

And HOW do you know this?

Please, unless what you say is clearly shown by a WELL-KNOWN ruling, please give the basis of your Reasoning.
 
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because you were the person that flipped the monster while it was on your side of the field.

since you cannot add the effect in the current chain it has to wait, BUT you as the original person that flipped it gets the effect.

what if it was a card like Change of Heart, who gets the effect? you do if you flipped it before Change of Heart resolved.

the effect only matters on how it was flipped and were it was flipped, it doesnt care were it ended up.

if it was the case with mataza then Creature Swap cant resolve correctly because mataza cannot switch sides. :)
 
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The reasoning behind what most have stated here? Lets look at this in a hypothetical situation...there are no cards that could do this I realize but humor me a second...

If you activated a non-existant card that sent my face down spell and trap cards to your side of the field and I chained Waboku to it who would get the effect? The owner of Waboku of course.

I'm looking at a flip effect from a monster being much like activating a spell or trap card, once the effect is activated the effect "floats" above the side of the field where it was activated and leaves the card itself. It doesn't matter that the card itself switches sides of the field, the flip effect has parted ways with the monster.
 
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John Danker said:
The Reasoning behind what most have stated here? Lets look at this in a hypothetical situation...there are no cards that could do this I realize but humor me a second...

If you activated a non-existant card that sent my face down spell and trap cards to your side of the field and I chained Waboku to it who would get the effect? The owner of Waboku of course.
Click to expand...
Of course, because Waboku activates before that non-existent card resolves.

Magician of Faith will be on the other player side of the field when it activates. It does not activate when Desert Sunlight flips it, it activates after Creature Swap resolves.

From Exiled Force vs The End of Anubis we get that it matters where a card is when it is activated. Whoever controls Magician of Faith when the effect is activated should be the one to get its effect.

It might not make too much sense to us, but remeber that a different language is more than jsut different names for words, it's a different way of thinking altogether.

E.g.
French has 5 past tenses 1 present tense and 2 future tenses.
English has 4 tense of each (that are used, there are actually 16 tenses in english)
This difference can make it difficult to have a hypothetical argument in french, because there are not enough tenses in the present and future to demonstrate the order of events (and arguing about cause and effect).

We can't use english logic to argue a japanese game. The only logic left is to take the rulings we get and extrapolate the mechanics from those, each time a new ruling comes we need to reevaluate our mechanics.
 
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John Danker said:
The reasoning behind what most have stated here? Lets look at this in a hypothetical situation...there are no cards that could do this I realize but humor me a second...

If you activated a non-existant card that sent my face down spell and trap cards to your side of the field and I chained Waboku to it who would get the effect? The owner of Waboku of course.

I'm looking at a flip effect from a monster being much like activating a spell or trap card, once the effect is activated the effect "floats" above the side of the field where it was activated and leaves the card itself. It doesn't matter that the card itself switches sides of the field, the flip effect has parted ways with the monster.
Click to expand...

I'm going to have to go with DaGuyWitBluGlasses here John. Your example is invalid; in you situation waboku is being chained (activated) to the card you made up and is put into the chain block.

In the situation creature swap vs. desert sunlight desert sunlight is being chained to creature swap. resolution occurs in reverse order: desert sunlight resolves fliping magician of faith face up, creature swap resolves switching control of magician of faith to the player who activated creature swap.
When the entire chain completly resolves magician of faith activates and starts a new chain imediatly afterwards on the side of the field opposite to that of the side which magician of faith was fliped on.
Again, I would have to say that the person who activated creature swap would get magician of faith's effect.
 
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If were going to continually state that FLIP Effects linger on the field even after they are destroyed (provided the have a legal target or object to affect) then were going to have to considere the possibility that the effect lingers on the side of the field that it was originally activated on.

If my Magician of Faith is flipped on my opponents side of the field and I chain Offerings to the Doomed, Magician of Faith is sent to the Graveyard and my opponent gets to search for a Spell Card. Why my opponent? Because MoF is not a Graveyard activated effect like Sangan. The effect was activated on his side of the field. The effect lingered on his side of the field awaiting resolution. It doesn't matter where Magician is when she resolves. What matters is where she was activated.
 
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ok. again, your situation has Magician of Faith activating on one side of the field and resolving somewhere else.

the situation with Enemy Controller; Magician of Faith activates on one side of the field and resolves on the other.

John Danker's Waboku example: Waboku activates on one side of the field and resolves on the other

the Offerings to the Doomed situation; Magician of Faith activates on one side of the field and resolves in the graveyard


The original question is quite different however. Magician of Faith is FLIPED on player B's side of the field. Magician of Faith switched to player A's side of the field. Magician of Faith activates on player A's side of the field. Magician of Faith resolves on player A's side of the field.

in the original situation Magician of Faith activates and resolves in the same location. every other example thus far has been invalidated by this fact.

All examples do have one thing in common however:
the player who's side of the field a card is on when it is ACTIVATED gets the effect.
Yet again, based on this information, I'm going to have to say the in the original question the person who activated Creature Swap gets the effect of Magician of Faith
In short, location at activation is what matters.
 
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I'll have to throw my hat in with exiledforcefreak and DaGuyWitBluGlasses. While MoF is indeed flipped on player B's side of the field, it does not actually activate until after the resolution of the current chain, at which time it both activates and resolves in a separate chain on Player A's side of the field.

<slinks off to the corner to cry about having to disagree with John Danker, of all people> :( :)
 
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The flip may create a new chain block, in this scenario, but the basic mechanics would still aply. Magician of Faith's effect is already considered active, it's just awaiting resolution of the current chain to begin her's.

If we were to assume that the controller of Creature Swap's side of the field is where an effect like this would/should resolve, then, in that case, the flip effect would apply to niether player. Player A did not flip Magician of Faith. Magician of Faith did not activate on his side of the field. The real question is whether Player B gets the effect or not, but there is no way, using either explanation, that player A could get to use the effect.
 
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