Discard and Destroy..which is which?

[Melchiah76]

hello again....here's another doubt that i realy need some help with.

i was asked to help out as a judge (not an official tournament, but becouse of the knowledge of the rules and the fact that im among 3 people that can understand english). i agreed, but over here, most of the players carry a vampire lord. i know of the rules with him, but im not entirely clear on one of them, so i need the help.

in wich case is considered vampire lord "destroyed" from the hand?. to my knowledge, there isn't one card affect (trap, magic or monster) that can do that. all the cards that handle hand control state "send to the graveyard", like CED's effect, but if vampire lord is "sent to the graveyard", his 1st effect wouldn't kick in. yet im wondering..is "discard" in the sentence of the card ( like "card destruction") a form of destroying from the hand?if not, the why konami would put a rule like that?.

thanka before hand. a big hello from Down here (Mexico).

 

[djp952]

- "Vampire Lord" must be on the field when he's destroyed for the effect to activate. I also cannot think of any card currently in the TCG that actually "destroys" monsters in your hand, and if there are it's probably a translation error [lol]

- "Discard" is definately not the same thing as "Destroy".

The reason they add the "and sent to the Graveyard" clause to the effect is to make sure it doesn't kick in if a card like "Banisher of the Light" is in play. In that case, "Vampire Lord" may be destroyed by an opponent's card effect, but it is not sent to the Graveyard. It is removed from play instead.

 

[Big Oldprankster]

These are the rulings from the card registry. Referring to your concern about being destroyed in the hand, look at the fourth ruling. If destroyed by chain destruction, it will be summoned during your next standby phase. What part of Mexico are you from? I just returned from Mexico City, Mexico from business.


Card Text
Each time this card inflicts Battle Damage to your opponent's Life Points, declare 1 card type (Monster, Spell, or Trap). Your opponent selects 1 card of that type from his/her Deck and sends it to the Graveyard. Also, if this card is destroyed and sent to the Graveyard by your opponent's card effect, it is Special Summoned to the field during your next Standby Phase.

Rulings
Your "Vampire Lord" will only be Special Summoned by his own effect when destroyed and sent to the Graveyard by a card effect that your opponent controls, not by your own card effects or as a result of battle.


"Vampire Lord" will only return to play with his effect when the owner controls it, because "Vampire Lord" must be "destroyed and sent to YOUR Graveyard". When your opponent takes control of your "Vampire Lord", and it inflicts Battle Damage to your Life Points, then the first effect of "Vampire Lord" is activated. But the second effect will not be activated if "Vampire Lord" is destroyed and sent to the Graveyard while your opponent controls him.


If you Summon "Vampire Lord" and he is destroyed by your opponent's "Horn of Heaven" or "Solemn Judgment", "Vampire Lord" will be Special Summoned in your next Standby Phase.


When "Vampire Lord" is destroyed (by a card effect such as "Chain Destruction") while in your hand, in your Deck, or on the field, he will be Special Summoned in your next Standby Phase. If "Vampire Lord" is discarded from your hand it will NOT be Special Summoned.


When "Vampire Lord" is Tributed (including by your opponent with "Soul Exchange"), or when he is "sent to the Graveyard", he will not be Special Summoned by his own effect because he was not "destroyed".


If "Vampire Lord" is supposed to be Special Summoned, but your Standby Phase is skipped with "Solomon's Lawbook" or "Gamble", "Vampire Lord" won't be Special Summoned, not even on the following Standby Phase.


If "Vampire Lord" is supposed to be Special Summoned, but gets returned to your hand or Deck instead, he won't be Special Summoned.


If "Vampire Lord" is destroyed and sent to the Graveyard by your opponent's card effect, but returns to the field that same turn and is then destroyed in a manner that would not allow him to be Special Summoned, then he is not Special Summoned.


You can keep Special Summoning "Vampire Lord" as long as each time he is destroyed by your opponent's card effect.


"Vampire Lord" is Special Summoned to your side of the field; you cannot Special Summon him to your opponent's side of the field.


When you have your "Vampire Lord" in play, Special Summoned by your "Premature Burial" or "Call of the Haunted", and your opponent destroys "Premature Burial" or "Call of the Haunted" with "Mystical Space Typhoon", the "Vampire Lord" won't be Special Summoned because it was destroyed by your card effect, not by your opponent's. If your opponent controls your "Vampire Lord" with "Autonomous Action Unit", and "Autonomous Action Unit" is destroyed, "Vampire Lord" won't be Special Summoned because the owner did not control him.


When you Special Summon "Vampire Lord" with his effect, your opponent can negate the Special Summon with "Royal Oppression", but the "Vampire Lord" will have been destroyed by your opponent's card effect ("Royal Oppression") and will be Special Summoned again during your next Standby Phase.


If "Vampire Lord" is destroyed while equipped to "Relinquished", he won't be Special Summoned, no matter who controls him or who destroyed him.


If "Vampire Lord" is destroyed while face-down by "Sasuke Samurai", "Vampire Lord" will be Special Summoned by his effect.


"Vampire Lord" can be Special Summoned by his own effect even while "Necrovalley" is in play.


When "Vampire Lord" is Summoned while your opponent's "Rivalry of Warlords" is active and your only monsters are non-Zombie-Type monsters, "Vampire Lord" is destroyed, but is not considered destroyed by "Rivalry of Warlords"' effect and won't be Special Summoned.


When your opponent doesn't have the type of card that you declared for "Vampire Lord", the effect of "Vampire Lord" disappears but you get to look at your opponent's Deck to confirm it.


It is the controller of "Vampire Lord", not necessarily the owner, that names a card type.


When you name "Spell Card" for "Vampire Lord", it includes Normal, Quick-Play, Field, Ritual, Continuous, and Equip Spell Cards, and the same is true for Traps.


Card effects like "Penguin Knight", "Sword of Deep-Seated", and "Cockroach Knight" will activate their effects when sent to the Graveyard by "Vampire Lord"'s effect.

 

[Melchiah76]

- "Vampire Lord" must be on the field when he's destroyed for the effect to activate. I also cannot think of any card currently in the TCG that actually "destroys" monsters in your hand, and if there are it's probably a translation error [lol]

- "Discard" is definately not the same thing as "Destroy".

The reason they add the "and sent to the Graveyard" clause to the effect is to make sure it doesn't kick in if a card like "Banisher of the Light" is in play. In that case, "Vampire Lord" may be destroyed by an opponent's card effect, but it is not sent to the Graveyard. It is removed from play instead.

yeah...seems very logical if you put it like that, but, the question arises.

then, consenting with me, that there are no card effects that "destroy from the hand, why would konami put that rule? that if vampire lord is, quote "destroyed from the hand", he will be special summoned on the field in the next standby phase?

maybe im missing something here....but if its the case...what im i missing?..??..i know that VL must be destroyed by card's effects and all.....and to me, sounds ilogical that konami would put a rule like that. it only adds a confusing matter to the efect. so...should i or should i not apply the rule here?...and if yes is the answer, how can i know wich cards destroy from hand?

knowledge is power.....so i plea for some, jejeje!!

keep up the good work, guys!!

 

[djp952]

yeah...seems very logical if you put it like that, but, the question arises.

then, consenting with me, that there are no card effects that "destroy from the hand, why would konami put that rule? that if vampire lord is, quote "destroyed from the hand", he will be special summoned on the field in the next standby phase?

maybe im missing something here....but if its the case...what im i missing?..??..i know that VL must be destroyed by card's effects and all.....and to me, sounds ilogical that konami would put a rule like that. it only adds a confusing matter to the efect. so...should i or should i not apply the rule here?...and if yes is the answer, how can i know wich cards destroy from hand?

knowledge is power.....so i plea for some, jejeje!!

keep up the good work, guys!!

Because as Bigoldprankster pointed out, there IS at least one card that destroys from the hand ... "Chain Destruction".

I guess just look at the card text to know .. here's Chain Destruction:

Chain Destruction
Normal Trap

You can activate this card when a monster with an ATK 2000 or less is Normal Summoned, Flip Summoned or Special Summoned. Destroy all monsters with the same name in the summoning player's hand and Deck. The Deck is then shuffled.

 

[Big Oldprankster]

This example is kinda out there but I think it is correct. If you would end up with your opponents Vampire Lord in your hand from playing exchange, and you had your own Vampire Lord in your hand also, When you summoned V Lord and your opponent activated Chain Destruction, the other V Lord would be destroyed.

 

[Melchiah76]

Discard and Destroy..wich is wich?

This example is kinda out there but I think it is correct. If you would end up with your opponents Vampire Lord in your hand from playing exchange, and you had your own Vampire Lord in your hand also, When you summoned V Lord and your opponent activated Chain Destruction, the other V Lord would be destroyed.

"What part of Mexico are you from? I just returned from Mexico City, Mexico from business."

you guys r right...the text in card destruction does indeed states "destroy"...so there IS a card in the card game that can destroy from the hand....u learn something new everyday. even though the odds of playing exchange+my VL+VL from oponent.......are very slim, but, hey, everything can happen, right?. thks a bunch u guys!!!! "i can see clearly now, the rain is gone.."


bigold prankster, im from Tabasco, Mexico, like 600 miles south of mexico city, near the gulf of Mexico. but im planing to change my location to Tijuana, Baja California, Mexico, near the northen border, just south of San Diego, California...if u live near, maybe i catch u over the border someday!!!

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

you guys r right...the text in card destruction does indeed states "destroy"...so there IS a card in the card game that can destroy from the hand....u learn something new everyday. even though the odds of playing exchange+my VL+VL from oponent.......are very slim, but, hey, everything can happen, right?. thks a bunch u guys!!!! "i can see clearly now, the rain is gone.."

Under Konami's jurisdiction there are more cards that destroy cards in the hand. Crush Card and the similar card in FET come to mind.

The former capable of destroying Vampire lord, the latter to be released soon.