Fairy Box, again.... XD

T

Tkwiget

Da Twiggy Man!
Alright, I've been looking up old cards and I still don't understand how this kind of situation is illegal.

Turn Player has a set Rush Recklessly on the field and a Don Zaloog.

Player B has a face up Fairy Box on the field and a face up attack position Spirit Reaper.

Turn Player declares an attack with Don Zaloog. He doesn't use his priority and passes it to Player B. Player B flips a coin for Fairy Box and calls it right. In the Damage Step, Turn Player activates Rush Recklessly and selects Don Zaloog as his/her target.

According to one of Fairy Box's rulings it says that Traps and Quick-play spell cards can't increase the attack of the monster affected by Fairy Box any further. Yet a monster effect like Injection Fairy Lily and/or Luminous Soldier work. Logically with the way the card is worded, the attack of any monster no matter what should remain zero throughout the Battle Phase.

So why do monster effects that increase attack points work but spell/trap cards don't????

Is it because monsters effects like The Hunter with 7 Weapons, Injection Fairy Lily, and Luminous Soldier in the Damage Step?? But Rush Recklessly works in the Damage Step too.

@_@ <shrugs in confusion>
 
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The only explaination is that only internal effects can further increase ATK. All external effects will have essentially no effect.

"A monster effect such as "Injection Fairy Lily" can increase its own ATK after "Fairy Box" is successful."

There have been similar types of rulings for other scenarios...like for instance Horn of Heaven vs. internal Special Summons like V-Lord etc.
 
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Yeah, when I first brought this up here on CoG and I got that for an answer from you and some other judges. I spoon fed it to a few players and it only compounded the confusion.

There should be more of a game mechanic reason behind it than just "internal" and "external" effects. I don't think a lot of players are going to accept that ruling very easily.

So I'm looking more for a game mechanic that I don't know of to use as my explaination. Because IMO from a game mechanical point of view the ruling is incorrect.

<shrugs and scratches the side of his head> o_O
 
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novastar said:
The only explaination is that only internal effects can further increase ATK. All external effects will have essentially no effect.

"A monster effect such as "Injection Fairy Lily" can increase its own ATK after "Fairy Box" is successful."

There have been similar types of rulings for other scenarios...like for instance Horn of Heaven vs. internal Special Summons like V-Lord etc.
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That was ruled a no... >_>
 
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I don't see how it's "internal" since it has no relationship to Fairy Box's effect. So why bring it up? Just trying to focus more on Fairy Box's ruling which makes no sense at all.

It's effect reads it covers the whole Battle Phase. Damage Step is Step 3 of the Battle Phase. There for the monster that attacked and the flip is called correctly for Fairy Box, that monster should remain at zero attack no matter what. Look at the Water Dragon ruling.

While "Water Dragon" is face-up on the field, either player can activate an effect to increase the ATK of a FIRE or Pyro-Type monster, but the Continuous Effect of "Water Dragon" will change it back to 0.
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You add one of the DNA cards in the situation with Injection Fairy Lily and she remains at 0 attack points. Shouldn't Fairy Box's ruling change if they ruled like that on a newer card?
 
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Shouldn't Fairy Box's ruling change if they ruled like that on a newer card?
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No, if that's the way they want it played, then Konami can rule it that way. Just like in the Phoenix thread, there are lots of cases of ambiguous text that leaves out details of the workings of an effect, that are later mentioned in ruling.

As an unbelievably silly example, if Pot of Greed's text states "Draw 2 cards" and a ruling stated..."You draw 3 cards from this effect" ...the final result would be a 3 card draw.

Ultimate Offering was a long running example of ambiguous text, and they created a ruling that massively changed the effect of the card, why? there could be lots of reasons why. (I realize that they have now inserted the extra text).

In short... my thoughts are that they wanted to exclude Traps/Spells, for whatever reason... there isn't any other clues as to why... only Konami knows.

Bare in mind ..i'm with you, and don't like the way they operate...but that's how it's always been...unfortunately.
 
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Yeah, I suppose that's true. I just hate giving out rulings that I myself can't even understand. A card errata would be a better solution to solve the confusion. But that's just my opinion.

Thanks I guess..=\
 
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You should know me by now...if there was any possible way to extract some sort of mechanic or meaning behind a ruling/text ...i would tell you.

I will look more into it, and see if i can come up with something more substantial... even i am not happy with my answer.

I picked out the "internal" point because they made specific mention of IFL being able to use "her own" effect... thats about the only strong clue i see so far.
 
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Well all the monster examples they give under Fairy Box's rulings that work get their attack boost in the Damage Step. That's one of the only other connections I see. But with that Water Dragon ruling, who knows what the heck they're thinking when they wrote it.

The Spell/Trap cards I'm not concerned about. Those I understand completely. But with the way Fairy Box is worded and how that ruling is worded, it just doesn't make any sense. The card text of Fairy Box disagree with the ruling. I know we can't override a ruling unless we know it to be 100% incorrect, but we should dig first and then compare what we find with one another.
 
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And that's why I keep saying that if we accept a horrible ruling that we say, "Because Konami Says So" to, then we ought to at least come up with a plausible reason to give out. Sure it might not be right, but if there is not a more "correct" answer than "BKSS", what does it hurt? I'd rather someone attempt to give me a decent answer than to give me some gibberish about a "mystery ruling" no one understands.
 
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Plausable reasons have been given... it was deemed "unacceptable" according to Tkwiget.

...and while i do agree that certainly there is always a "method to the madness" that does not mean that we (the general public) are aware of it.

Complain to UDE...who in turn should complain to Konami.
 
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Alright, I think I found something pretty solid to start off on.

Each time a monster on your opponent's side of the field attacks, toss a coin and call Heads or Tails. If you call it right, the attacking monster's ATK becomes 0 only during the Battle Phase. Pay 500 Life Points during each of your Standby Phases. If you do not, this card is destroyed.

Notice the bolded text. This references to the "current" attack of that monster. Now bare with me on this because this took me forever to think out.

Steamroid
Penumbral Soldier Lady
Luminous Soldier
Injection Fairy Lily
Mirage Knight
The Hunter with 7 Weapons
Super Roboyarou
Super Robolady
Spirit of Flames
Kinetic Soldier

Those cards all activate in the Damage Step. If Injection Fairy Lily gets her attack boost in the Damge Step so do all the other cards listed there without a Fairy Box ruling.

Now, the fact of the matter is I feel that Fairy Box is a trigger effect that only affects the current attack of that monster. But this still doesn't explain the fact how Spell/Trap cards that modify attack don't work. This makes no sense.

The card text shows no reference to effects, simply references to the current attack of that monster. I can see from a mechanical point how monsters that gain attack points in the Damage Step could gain attack points.

This doesn't explain anything on why Spell/Trap cards don't work. Card text says that part of the ruling is wrong.

Any thoughts on this you guys????
 
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A monster that can change its own attack is kind of like the exception. Sure you blanked my current attack, but I can change it, and you only paid to affect it once.

An external effect change is not the same since it is still trying to affect the "current" attack, which cannot be anything more than 0.
 
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Umm, I'll have to disagree with that.

Fairy Box only affects the monster once and only once. Once Fairy Box resets the current attack to zero, it isn't like it's locked in place. This is where I can't decide on what to side with. I don't like the terms "internal" and "external" because of the results I got from players when I used it. -_-

It's my belief that Fairy Box gives the monster a new current attack. Since Fairy Box already established it's effect and did it's magic on the monster, it shouldn't bar off any Spell/Trap cards from doing their job. I don't see the actual mechanics behind that part of the ruling.
 
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True, but if it can be explained using mechanics then we need to find that explaination. So far we got the monster side down. Just have to figure out if Konami screwed up on the Spell/Trap or what...
 
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