FIber Jar vs. Final Countdown and a Token Question

Digital Jedi

Digital Jedi

Administrator
Staff member
1) Just to verify something, will the effect of Final Countdown still aplly even after it returns to the deck with Fiber Jar. If not, then why?

2) I know more about tokens then anyone would care to know, but I'm still unclear as to when they are considered "destroyed." Morphing Jar #2 will not shuffle them back into the deck, but if they are Ojama Tokens will they inflict the 300 points of damage each? The Fiber Jar ruling suggests that they will.

Monster Tokens in play will be destroyed when the effect of "Fiber Jar" is activated.

But nowadays, I'm trepadatious of taking any rulings at thier word.
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
Digital Jedi said:
1) Just to verify something, will the effect of Final Countdown still aplly even after it returns to the deck with Fiber Jar. If not, then why?

2) I know more about tokens then anyone would care to know, but I'm still unclear as to when they are considered "destroyed." Morphing Jar #2 will not shuffle them back into the deck, but if they are Ojama Tokens will they inflict the 300 points of damage each? The Fiber Jar ruling suggests that they will.

Monster Tokens in play will be destroyed when the effect of "Fiber Jar" is activated.

But nowadays, I'm trepadatious of taking any rulings at thier word.
Click to expand...

Fiber Jar's effect has no effect on Final Countdown, it's count of turns continues.

As for the token question, I've never really looked into it. That's the first time I've read that....interesting. Perhaps someone else has more insight to that than I do.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You see my dilema. When is a token considered destroyed? If the Fiber Jar ruling is any indication, then anytime they are removed from the field they are destroyed. This means that I could get the "burn" for Ojama Tokens whenever they are "retuned to the hand", "shuffled into the deck", "removed from play" or "sent to the Graveyard." Heck, even when they are tributed for something. That would open up some possibilities for tokens, at least for me.

Fiber Jar isnt the only ruling that uses "destroy" with regards to tokens being removed from the field either, i don't think, but I cant find them.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Monster Tokens in play will be destroyed when the effect of "Fiber Jar" is activated.

I'm going to assume what this ruling means, as I have no official proof.

As for Fiber Jar's effect is taking place, the Ojama Token(s) cannot be placed into the deck, as they are tokens. As Fiber Jar attempts to place these tokens into the deck, they cannot since they are invalid, so they are destroyed. I assume it "will not" inflict damage. By game mechanics, they were destroyed, not by Fiber Jar's effect, ruling say tokens cannot go to the deck of course.

If your opponent has your Vampire Lord within control with Change of Heart, as it attempts to switch control to your side of the field, but you have no available slots. Vampire Lord is destroyed by game mechanics.

When I think about it, I fear that example may not even help out this situation, in order to get the effect of Vampire Lord, it must be under your control when your opponent destroys it.

But when Change of Heart switches control in that situation, who's in control of Vampire Lord?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
If someone can show me a ruling that any other kind of monster is destroyed when Fiber Jar is flipped I'd have a lot easier time buying into the tokens being destroyed. I'm having a tough time stomaching that Fiber Jar destroys or that tokens are destroyed if not in the "regular ways"

I was hoping to gleen some help on this by looking at the rulings on Ballon Lizard vs. Fiber Jar but didn't find anything.....yet.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Fiber Jar's effect doesn't involve any form of destroying a card, both Player's simply unite and shuffle their field, hand, and graveyard into perspective decks.

Balloon Lizard is never destroyed, the counters gets removed then Balloon Lizard is placed into the deck.

Ojama Trio tokens simply cannot be placed into the deck, and are destroyed by "game mechanics" thus not inflicting damage.

Just my thoughts.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I know, but the term "destroyed" in the Fiber Jar's ruling is vague. You can't really define what "destroyed" means within the ruling.

But what I believe the ruling is trying to imply that's there's nothing you can do but "destroy" them as they cannot be placed into the deck.

If Player1 were to activate Snatch Steal and target Player2's Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys, then Player2 chains with Ojama Trio, filling up the remaining 3 slots on Player1's field, the chain resolves the way it is then Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys is destroyed by game mechanics, no available slots. Yet, you don't get the effect of Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys.

I know the significant difference between Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys and the Ojama Tokens is that Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys says "destroyed by card effect" and Ojama Trio says "destroyed" period.

But by rulings, you can't place Tokens into the deck, this depends if they were lazy about terms or it really means "destroyed" enough for Ojama Trio to inflict damage.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Well, I know I'm probably completely wrong, but I think that the tokens are removed from the game via game mechanics when they attempt to enter the deck, hence no destruction, no damage

-chaosruler
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
There seems to be a defined differece between destroyed by a card effect or battle, and destroyed by game mechanic.

Butterfly dagger's effect only triggers if it is destroyed by a card effect, not when it is destroyed by equip related game mechanics. By extrapolation of this ruling, I'd say that Ojama tokens will not cause damage.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
icecold said:
the tokens are simply removed from the feild aren't they?
Click to expand...
Technicaly, yes. But are they considered destroyed each time they are removed?

I looked a few rulings and most of them say the tokens are "removed from the game" or "removed from play" which isn't any clearer than destroyed.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I can't see the Tokens being considered "destroyed" here. There is nothing in either the Fiber Jar effect nor the Game Mechanic that says they would be destroyed. Wehn a token leaves the field it is removed from play and that's about it. Neither "Last Turn" nor the effect of "Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End" "destroys" tokens... everything is sent to the graveyard there, or in the case of a token, simply removed from play. While "Fiber Jar" isn't quite the same, it's close enough to say that it would simply be removed from the field and as such removed from play.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Then is it just a case of bad wording?

And would it really be a stretch to say that a token, who can't exist outside the field, be considered "destroyed" when it is removed from the field? All that would do is open up some possibilities.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
icecold said:
i dont get it??
Click to expand...
Reread my initial post and you'll see the Fiber Jar ruling says that monster tokens on the field are destroyed when Fiber Jars effect is activated. But most rulings say that they are removed from the field or from play. The question is, which is it? We know they cease to exist once they leave the field, but what does the game call thier "removal"?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top