Future Fusion and XYZ

A

ApocalypseAp

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Can you use Future Fusion to select XYZ Dragon Cannon (or other such fusion monsters) and send X, Y and Z to the graveyard?

Right now I am assuming that you can, but I know you wouldn't be able to summon XYZ via its effect even if that were the case, so it would stay on the field meaninglessly. Still, to be able to use it like that might help.
 
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ApocalypseAp said:
Can you use Future Fusion to select XYZ Dragon Cannon (or other such fusion monsters) and send X, Y and Z to the graveyard?

Right now I am assuming that you can, but I know you wouldn't be able to summon XYZ via its effect even if that were the case, so it would stay on the field meaninglessly. Still, to be able to use it like that might help.
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If you read the text of VWXYZ, VW, XYZ, XZ, YZ, and XY Fusion's, they state that they are not ever Fusion Summoned. They are Fusion Monsters, that can only be Special Summoned from the Fusion Deck by THEIR effect, not anything else.

So, you cannot use Fusion Gate, Polymerization, Power Bond, Metamorphosis, Cyber-Stein, Summoner of Illusions, The Light - Hex-Sealed Fusion, Magical Scientist, or Future Fusion.
 
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Yes I know you can't use other cards like that, but the summoning happens later. That also affects why you can't use fusion substitutes for it, because those fusions subs wouldn't be used at the time they're sent to the graveyard for the fusion summon. Or something like that.

You get what I mean, right?
 
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I think he's just asking if he can use Future Fusion to put the X, Y, Z monsters into the graveyard, not if XYZ Dragon Cannon can be summoned with Future Fusion. It seems that it would be a legal play, that the X, Y, Z pieces would go from the deck to the graveyard, then when Future Fusion tried to special summon XYZ Dragon Cannon two turns later, the effect would fail to happen due to XYZ Dragon Cannon's effect.
 
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You cannot activate the effect of Future Fusion to target a monster that cannot be summoned by a Fusion Summon. That would be like activating Polymerization and sending X. Y, Z, to the Graveyard and then later the effect fails because XYZ-Dragon Cannon cannot be Fusion Summoned.

You cannnot activate the effect of a card that will do nothing. You can't activate Dark Hole if there is no monster to destroy. You can't activate and pay for Brain Control if there are no face-up monsters on your opponents side of the field.

Future Fusion MUST target a legal Fusion Monster in your Fusion Deck, in order to send the pieces to the Graveyard. It is impossible to Fusion Summon a XYZ Monster, and if those are the only type Fusion's you have in your Fusion Deck, you cannot even activate Future Fusion.

It could possibly be different if you could at least "Special Summon" an XYZ Monster from the Fusion Deck using another means, but they cannot be a target of any effect that Special Summons Fusions as they have their own method of being summoned.

[Group: XYZ FUSION MONSTERS] These monsters cannot be Special Summoned from the Fusion Deck except by the method described in their text. So they cannot be Special Summoned by the effect of "Magical Scientist" or "Summoner of Illusions". They cannot be Special Summoned from the Graveyard even after they have been Special Summoned by the method described in their texts.

[Group: XYZ FUSION MONSTERS] You must remove from play the monsters specified; you cannot use "Goddess with the Third Eye", etc., because you are not performing a Fusion Summon.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
You cannnot activate the effect of a card that will do nothing. You can't activate Dark Hole if there is no monster to destroy. You can't activate and pay for Brain Control if there are no face-up monsters on your opponents side of the field.
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If it will do nothing at resolution.

Continuos Spells and Traps generally get around the "must do something rule"

Afterall, one of them doesn't even have an effect (Toon World)

ETA: I agree that you wouldn't be activate Future Fusion selecting XYZ monsters, just not for the above reasons.
 
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DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
If it will do nothing at resolution.

Continuos Spells and Traps generally get around the "must do something rule"

Afterall, one of them doesn't even have an effect (Toon World)

ETA: I agree that you wouldn't be activate Future Fusion selecting XYZ monsters, just not for the above reasons.
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Future Fusion is only Continuous because it must remain on the field to Special Summon the Fusion Monster. It's not a matter of being able to "activate it", just to toss a bunch of Machines into the Graveyard, and nevermind the Fusion Monster.

If you could activate it without regard to the Fusion Monster you intend to summon, then you could theoretically activate the effect without even having a single Fusion in your Fusion Deck, but that's not the case. You need

1. At least one Machine Fusion
2. A Machine Fusion that can be Special Summoned by Fusion Summoning


And, even though Toon World doesnt have an effect, it allows Toons to attack Directly by "their" effect, so it indirectly has a purpose, whereas you cannot even activate Future Fusion is you dont have Fusions to summon.

Comparing Toon World to Future Fusion is like comparing Mystic Plasma Zone to Enemy Controller.
 
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You cannot activate selecting it because you need to select a machine monster that can be fusion summoned.

Its along the lines of an Equip Card that increases the ATK of a warrior monster, it is implied you may only select the monster mentioned on the card. Selecting an appropriate monster is the reason Future Fusion cannot send the X,Y,Z pieces to the graveyard. It has nothing to do with Future Fusion being able to resolve because Future Fusion sends cards to the graveyard at resolution; Summoning a monster is irrelevant to the resolution.

Toon World has no effect (period). There's no such mechanic as "serving a purpose" to other cards. It certainly doesn't concern itself with whether you're playing Toon monster or not.

A card's type is a basic fact, there is no "because" in determing it.
 
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DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
You cannot activate selecting it because you need to select a machine monster that can be fusion summoned.

Its along the lines of an Equip Card that increases the ATK of a warrior monster, it is implied you may only select the monster mentioned on the card. Selecting an appropriate monster is the reason Future Fusion cannot send the X,Y,Z pieces to the graveyard. It has nothing to do with Future Fusion being able to resolve because Future Fusion sends cards to the graveyard at resolution; Summoning a monster is irrelevant to the resolution.

Toon World has no effect (period). There's no such mechanic as "serving a purpose" to other cards. It certainly doesn't concern itself with whether you're playing Toon monster or not.

A card's type is a basic fact, there is no "because" in determing it.
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Toon World has a Purpose. Just because it doesnt have an effect, doesnt mean it isnt a piece of a whole. It wouldnt be mentioned in Toon Cards if it didnt have a purpose, just like Gradius Option has no other purpose without Gradius, as well as the Equip Spell Card that can only be equipped to Gradius.

Summoning a monster is irrelevant because you cant even activate it if you cant select an appropriate monster. Putting the cart before the horse doesnt work in your explanation as you cant arrive at a resolution without an activation.
 
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Other Cards are irrelevant: I can't activated Dark Hole (empty field) with the intention of chaining Call of the Haunted (target: Sangan)

Surely dark hole would serve the same "purpose" as Toon World in that sitution: Creating a situation for other cards to get their effects.

Hint: The Last Warrior from Another Planet, Jowgen the Spiritualist, + six monster in the upcoming set make understanding this issue important.
 
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DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
Other Cards are irrelevant: I can't activated Dark Hole (empty field) with the intention of chaining Call of the Haunted (target: Sangan)

Surely dark hole would serve the same "purpose" as Toon World in that sitution: Creating a situation for other cards to get their effects.

Hint: The Last Warrior from Another Planet, Jowgen the Spiritualist, + six monster in the upcoming set make understanding this issue important.
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Instead of trying to "cloud" the issue, why not try actually saying that you will never agree with anything I say, so we can just ignore each other??
 
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