handful of questions

J

Jeff Mop

New Member
1) My opponent has Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV4 on the field. Being the idiot that I am, I activate Change of Heart and target Horus 4. Of course, Horus 4 can't switch sides of the field, so it's not a legal target for Horus 4. The question is what happens to the Change of Heart card. I've had some people tell me it goes face down, set on the field, some people say it goes back to my hand. I've scoured the landscape looking for the answer but can't find it in the faq or in the ude pdfs either.

2) Same scenario, but it's Creature Swap and Horus 4 is their only monster. I assume the same result?

3) Same scenario as 1, but it's Snatch Steal...same or different for an equip card?

4) Totally unrelated, and relatively easy question I'm sure has been asked before, but it's on on the UDE faq - player A activates Cold Wave at start of Main Phase 1. He then cannot activate his already face down Ring of Destruction, right? Just makin sure.
 
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The answer is the same for 1-3 above. If the activation is illegal then the game is rewound to just before you played the card. So if you played it from your hand it would return to your hand. If you played it from the field it would return face down to the field.

However this only applies if the activation is ILLEGAL. If the activation is legal but would have no effect then the effect resolves without doing anything and the card is sent to the Graveyard. For example if I have Royal Decree face-up and active on the field, and you activate a Ring of Destruction on my monster. Royal Decree does not stop the activation, it only negates the effect of trap cards. Ring of Destruction would end up in the Graveyard without doing anything.

Cold Wave prevents you or your opponent from playing or setting Spell or Trap cards. It is not in the FAQ because it is clearly spelled out on the card that you can't play or set them (which includes playing them from the field if they were previously Set).

Spot's Knight
 
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Jeff Mop said:
1) My opponent has Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV4 on the field. Being the idiot that I am, I activate Change of Heart and target Horus 4. Of course, Horus 4 can't switch sides of the field, so it's not a legal target for Horus 4. The question is what happens to the Change of Heart card. I've had some people tell me it goes face down, set on the field, some people say it goes back to my hand. I've scoured the landscape looking for the answer but can't find it in the faq or in the ude pdfs either.

2) Same scenario, but it's Creature Swap and Horus 4 is their only monster. I assume the same result?

3) Same scenario as 1, but it's Snatch Steal...same or different for an equip card?

4) Totally unrelated, and relatively easy question I'm sure has been asked before, but it's on on the UDE faq - player A activates Cold Wave at start of Main Phase 1. He then cannot activate his already face down Ring of Destruction, right? Just makin sure.
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WOW... when you say a handfull of questions you really mean it dont you...
ok.... here is what I know
1) If you play change of heart mistakenly and you call out Horus Lv 4.... that change of heart would then go to the graveyard since you DID activate the effect (just like it normally would)... but since Horus is an incorrect target, the effect would not resolve itself

2) Same sorta situation with Creature Swap, but since creature swap is not targeting, it works a bit different..... If Horus Lv 4 is their only monster on the field I believe that creature swaps effect is not allowed to resolve since it Horus Lv 4 cannot change control shile faceup on the field... however, if you book of moon their Horus Lv4 First, it CAN be swapped.... make sense?? Now Im not too sure on this part, but if he is face up, your opponent would get your monster, but you just would not get the Horus....(unless you flip him face down ie book of moon) Someone please correct me if I am wrong here..

3) You wasted your Snatch Steal, except it just sits there on the field without a target... whether they get their 1000 on the standby phase I am not sure...

4)Cold Wave.... ok... I run cold wave in my deck... you MAY Chain Ring of Destruction to the activation of Cold Wave... since you resolve a chain in reverse the Ring resolves then the Cold Wave... but that is the only way to do it since Cold wave has to be the very first card played in Main Phase 1
 
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kingpinopie, spots is correct on 1-3, those are all illegal activations. You cannot activate those cards to target Horus LV4.

In the case of illegal activation, the card does not go to the graveyard, but the activation is rewound and goes back to your hand or face-down, to be used again later.
 
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Horus Lv 4
"As long as this card remains face-up on your side of the field, control of this card cannot switch. During the End Phase of a turn that this card destroyed a monster as a result of battle, send this card to the Graveyard to Special Summon 1 "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6" from your hand or Deck."

so it actually does no say anything about being targeted by spell cards it just says it cannot switch control... so that spell card would have just been wasted right.. .. like using a premature burial, then discovering you are an idiot cuz there are NO monsters in the graveyard...... maybe i need to go back to bed.... lol
 
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"control of this card cannot switch."

This restriction prevents any card that has an effect that switches control of it from resolving properly. Since potential for proper resolution is an activation requirement for most effects, it would make the activation of Change of Heart, Snatch Steal, Creature Swap and any other similar effect on Horus LV4 illegal.

Hope that helps
 
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Man I am going to get some caffeine and wake up then.... Im way off today... well at least i was right about the whole cold wave thing..... its a good thing i am not dueling right now...
 
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kingpinopie said:
Man I am going to get some caffeine and wake up then.... Im way off today... well at least i was right about the whole cold wave thing..... its a good thing i am not dueling right now...
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Yeah i need one too...a nice warm cup of joe on this blistering cold day here on toronto.
 
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hmmm.. ya.. that whole time I have been playing (bout 2 yrs).. the judges here have always ruled that if you wrongfully activate a card, it's wasted and goes to the graveyard.
Toronto huh.. i have friends in Hamilton...
Thanks for the clarifications Novastar... i will try and pass this on to everyone here since we have been informed wrongly for sometime now...
 
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I think the whole situation came to pass because some cards, even though the timing was "bad", it was still not illegally played. For instance, Imperial Order negates the effects of all Spell Cards (some exceptions), but it doesnt stop you from activating them unlike Jinzo and Traps. So, your opponent may mistakenly activate Change of Heart while IO is activated and since its not illegally activated, it would be negated and sent to the Graveyard.

This is regretable, but it prevents a few things from taking place. Your opponent could easily say they forgot IO was active and put it back in their hand, or if they did it on purpose to free up space in their S/T Zone, they could claim stupid and it would go to the Graveyard.

I guess over time, in your area kingpinopie, no one made (or overlooked) the distinction of correctly activated, but negated cards, versus illegally activated and return to hand or set cards.

**Also, it is important to note that any card can change sides of the field when they are face-down (except "Big Shield Guardna" when targeted), so the fact that Change of Heart, Snatch, Creature Swap were illegally activated was only because the target was face-up on the field. If its face-down, Mataza, Blindly Loyal Goblin, Freed the Matchless, Horus LV 4-8 will all change sides.
 
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