horus 6 vs messenger

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kintaro

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Messenger of Peace
(Spell Ruler, Dark Beginning 1)
Neither player can declare attacks with face-up monsters with an ATK of 1500 or more. Pay 100 Life Points during each of your Standby Phases. If you do not, destroy this card.


this is the errata.. so horus6 is unaffected by any spell cards, but messenger forbids the player to attack.. so horus6 cannot attack.. or?

tnx forthe help ^^
 
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amazingly as much as i dont want to belive it because its common sence, in this case common sence is useless.

officially unless both swords and this got errated, in both cards it states that the player cannot declare an attack, hence it targets the player.

but for some reason when it comes down to this monster it defies the text on swords and messenger of peace.

more understandable is horus 6 vs darkhole or raigeki, cards that trully affect the field and do not target. since it states they are immute to them.

but like dlanaan said, they can attack. that preaty much it, yes they can attack but by common sence they would be able to attack. i figure its one of thouse "because konami said so"
 
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It doesn't matter if it affects the player or the monster, Horus (et al..) just ignore the effects of all spell cards, period, end of story, nothing to see here, move along. ;)

Spot's Knight
 
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actually it does matter sir.

effects that target the player ai: pot of greed, spirit mirror (only in japan) do have a thing to say.

Okay the monster says its not affected by opponents spell cards, either by targetting or by not targetting it.

Swords and messenger stat that the opponent cannot perform an action. you dont just ignore the effects of a spell card just because.

bring up logical proff not just bs that "because konami said so" because that seems to be the asnwer to almost anything lately.

seriously, i know that the ruling is that the monsters can attack i know this im not dumb, but the only reason that i know this is because i was told that its this way. but if we look at both cards we will notice a slight thing, How the hell do we explain this to newcomers? "oo, its because konami said so" dude, belive me some fools will get seriously mad because there is no actaul answer its just, "I am law, do as i say" kind of stuff.

so logically i would like to see proff on how this defies Swords and Messenger.

I know what the answer is, But I want to know how you came up with it.
 
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Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 14:34:34 -0000
From: "hyabusa_knight" <zidanet@netrox.net>
Subject: Horus LV6 vs. Swords of Revealing Light

If my opponent has SORL on the field and I summon Horus LV6 to
the field, would SORL effect not work on Horus since he is unaffected
by spells? (I thought I remembered reading a similiar ruling a while
ago about Legendary Fisherman saying that SORL would not stop him so
I would assume the same would work for Horus LV6.)

Answer:

The "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6" would still be able to attack.

The rulings are quite similar for these two cards because their effects are quite similar. (unaffected by Spell Cards)

----------------------------------
Curtis Schultz
Official UDE Netrep
CurtisSchultz_Netrep@hotmail.com
Click to expand...

Ya know what? This works for me well enough.
 
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Yes their unaffected but the one affected is you.

if you cannot perform the action how can the action be placed.

like i said, i know the answer to the question, What i want to know is how you got the answer in the firstplace.
 
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A player can't just declare an attack. A player can't just say "I'll attack your life points directly myself".

A player must Declare an attack with a Monster so Swords and Messenger of peace affect more than just a player, and thus Horus Lv6 can attack through it.
 
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not necesserally true, becuase Berserk Gorilla has to attack everyturn.

no matter what, it has to, so that means the opponent must declare an attack with an eligable candidate.

the one affect is the opponent not the monster, swords does not state that the opponent can attack with an eligable monster. it states they cannot declare an attack period.

it doesnt mention anything about monsters.

im seeing were you are going but still not enough to fill the gap.

also, cards like sakuretsu armor state " when your opponent declares an attack" it doesnt state, when your opponents monsters attack etc.. etc.. etc..

all the card need to activate is the opponent stating, im going to attack using my etc..

okay, for purposes of viewing this its like

your parents (swords of revealing light) telling you, that you cannot eat a cookie till after dinner and to make sure you do not they tape your mouth shut, and tie you down to a chair.

You in the other hand try and send your siblings (any monster) to get you the cookie so you can eat it before dinner but your in no way mobile of conducting a conversation with them.

so how do you get the cookie?

Horus is the How you get it, and this is defying everything its like it releases you.

now you can get the cookie because some how 1 of your siblings figured out what you wanted (horus 6) but you can only get 1 because its the only sibling that can get it for you. the rest still dont have a clue what you want.

you get what im saying? no, its like a plethora stuck in an enigma. lol
 
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The point is that the player is the one who chooses the target attacker and defender, but it does not change the fact that the monster is the one attacking not the player.

Saying that a player may not declare an attack, means that the effect takes away the ability for any of the opponents monsters to attack. It does NOT target the player, it infact affects the player's monsters ability to attack, by in this case taking it away.

It would of course be awkward to word it any other way.
 
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Hi ^^
MY first post here..Well -this Topic was opened because of me -Thanks Kintaro ^^ .. Umm well..I think that Horus lv6 Can atk..It's very similar with Ectoplasmer.This card is applied on players not on monsters ,since the players have to tribute monsters...But horus LV6 can't be tributed with this card since is the efect of a spell...It doesn't metter if the spell card effects Horus directly or by players .
The situation with Horus and Ectoplaser is writen on the official page...so
=P you know what i mean, Cya ^^
 
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horus can attack, because as novastar said: "the player is the one who chooses the target attacker and defender, but it does not change the fact that the monster is the one attacking not the player." This should specify the rulings with horus level 6, and also don't rely on common sense, it is rather rare nowadays. :)

-chaosruler
LV 1 YGO
LV 1 Vs. System
 
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well of course its not so common anymore.

but like i stated, and yes swords does target the player, because if it didnt the text would be.

"all monsters on your opponents side of the field cannot attack"

that oviously would target the monsters, because if you notice messenger of peace does actually target the monsters in a way, any 1500 up and cant attack.

etc.. etc..
 
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You sound like someone who got attacked by one of those cards that were mentioned earlier. Horus Lv. 6, The Legendary Fisherman, etc... i think this is a great debate, however, if you think about the text on Horus Lv. 6 and the other cards that negate spells, then even if a card like Swords of Revealing light has you stuck for three turns, you are still able to declare an attack with this cards because of their effect, since it's negated for them, and them alone.

Anyway...that's the way I see it.
 
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yes but the situations isnt that the monsters are being targetd by the effect its the players.


and trust me i can hold my own against any of thouse monsters.

mind you, the Legendary fisherman isnt to tought to a Bls or Chaos sorcerer, or anything that can beat it up. not to mention the good old trapcards like needlecealing or ring, or cylinders, or torrential or bottomless etc...

what im very interested in is how the ruling came about. i know its the ruling i follow through the rulling i dont state other wise but just know how it came about is my true interest, not any of this "oh its because konami said so"

you know what i mean?
 
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I dont see why this is such a big debate. Its the same as if your opponent had 2 Marauding Captains down on the field. If you have a "Dark Ruler Ha Des" you cannot declare an attack on your opponents monster's and you cannot attack directly, but if you have "Inaba White Rabbit", does that mean that he cant attack directly either? No. Because "his effect" allows him to attack directly regardless of Marauding Captains effect, which in turn allows "his controller" to declare the attack.

Horus LV6 has an effect that allows him to bypass the effect of Spell Cards that are preventing other monsters from attacking as normal. Because he is unaffected by Swords of Revealing Light, his controller may use his effect to release him from the restriction of attacking (for Horus LV6 ONLY).

Using the "Inaba" example again, how is it any different than seeing that your opponent has 5 monsters on the field and normally, you would be unable to attack life points directly, but Inaba's effect says otherwise. It isnt the controller that can declare the attack on his own, it is Inaba's effect that allows him to do so, same as if "Gravity Bind" were activated.

I see it as the monster and the controller are an extension of each other.
 
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nice philosophical metaphor, that was deep :)

cards that restrict the field, such as SoRL and MoP, do just that regulate the FIELD, and (sorry to spell this out so much) what else is on the field?
Monsters!!
So if it regulates the field it affects the monsters!!!!!
hence, horus lv.6, and the legendary fisherman can attack under restricted pretenses (MoP, etc.)

rate my deck at http://www.igforums.com//threads/5844
-chaosruler
LV 1 YGO
LV 1 Vs. System
 
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i dont know if this helps.. .. but it has been posted in other threads that a card cannot target a player.... so this is my interpretation of this.... Messenger is not targeting the opposing player .... just the opposing players side of the field... but since Horus is not affected by any spell cards... He CAN attack... and same with Swords of revealing light .... its useless against him


PS./... nicely put on Horus's effect Masterwoo
 
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