horus/gaia vs skill drain

[cabbage]

Just a query, if "Skill Drain" negates the effects of face-up Effect Monsters on the field, but does not negate effects that activate in the Graveyard...can i still lvl up my horus since i will be sending it to graveyard to special summon the next lvl and thus it will not be on the field?
Another thing is that will Gaia Soul the Combustible Collective be destroyed at the end of the turn even if skill drain is already active on the field?
Thanks in advance

 

[Xeno]

Not sure about Gaia, but I'm pretty sure Horus LV6 CAN be leveled up using a spell card when Skill Drain is active, because it is the effect of the spell card, not the monster, that is being used.

However, I'm also pretty sure that if Skill Drain is active and Horus LV6 kills a monster, he will NOT be sent to the graveyard to summon LV8.

 

[Bigred Blues]

Skill Drain does not effect effects that Trigger in the Graveyard. But I am unsure if you can send it with Skill Drain on the field. If its a cost to send Horus to the GY to bring out the next level then Skill Drain wouldnt Stop it from being sent and it would activate in the Graveyard.


Gaia would not be destoryed in the Endphase.

Subject: Gaia Soul vs Skill Drain
From: "Dan Fisher"
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 21:49:41 -0000
X-Message-Number: 5

Player A has an active Skill Drain in his S/T zone.

Player A then summons Gaia Soul The Combustable Collective to the field.

At the end phase of his turn, if Gaia survives, does it get destroyed?

Obviously effect #1 of Gaia's tribute increase is gone if Skill Drain is active
as well as it's trample effect. But what about Gaia having to leave the field at
the end of the turn?

I know that a maintenance cost of keeping a monster on the field is not negated
by skill drain but this is tricky.

Thanks

Answer:

"Gaia Soul the Combustible Collective" would not be destroyed by its effect
during the End Phase because the effect would be negated by "Skill Drain."

It is not like a maintainence cost and shouldn't be thought of in that way.

---------------------------------------
Curtis Schultz
Official Netrepâ„¢
CurtisSchultz_netrep@Hotmail.com

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

Not sure about Gaia, but I'm pretty sure Horus LV6 CAN be leveled up using a spell card when Skill Drain is active, because it is the effect of the spell card, not the monster, that is being used.

However, I'm also pretty sure that if Skill Drain is active and Horus LV6 kills a monster, he will NOT be sent to the graveyard to summon LV8.

Sending a Level monster to the graveyard is indeed a cost to activate its effect. Skill drain will have no effect for the same reason that Horus LV 6 can be Level up!'ed (Horus 6 is unnaffected by spell cards).

 

[lzy3]

So what is the answer really? I'm not sure myself, but I think it won't be able to summon since it has to kill a monster to tribute itself to summon lvl 8.

 

[Xeno]

Sending a Level monster to the graveyard is indeed a cost to activate its effect. Skill drain will have no effect for the same reason that Horus LV 6 can be Level up!'ed (Horus 6 is unnaffected by spell cards).

So... does a LV6 that killed a monster summon LV8 or not?

 

[Raigekick]

Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6
Dragon/Fire/6/2300/1600
As long as this card remains face-up on your side of the field, it is unaffected by any Spell Cards. During the End Phase of a turn that this card destroyed a monster as a result of battle, send this card to the Graveyard to Special Summon 1 "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8" from your hand or Deck.

Rule:
6. If a level monster fulfills its condition to Special Summon the next-highest level (for example, if "Armed Dragon LV5" destroys a monster as a result of battle), and the level monster is then flipped face-down, or removed from play permanently, or sent to the Graveyard and then Special Summoned from the Graveyard, then its condition is reset and it is no longer considered to have met the condition to level up to the next level.

This is what I noticed:
1. Horus Lvl 6 effect is a Trigger Effect (non optional). It is not an Ignition Effect either. So, that said, sending Horus Lvl 6 to the Graveyard is not a cost; hence, Skill Drain will negate its effect.

2. We know Skill Drain negates and resets the state of all face-up monster on the field, so Skill Drain will reset the state that Horus Lvl 6 destroyed a monster during to battle.

Conclusion:
Skill Drain will reset Horus Lvl 6. Skill Drain will negate the Trigger Effect of Horus Lvl 6.

 

[Spike Kaiba]

I would personally go with it would not be able to level itself up through its effect if Skill Drain was active...just as Breaker would not be able to remove its counter to use his inbuilt MST...then again that is for the fact Skill Drain would 'remove' the counter until it was destroyed

 

[Raigekick]

just as Breaker would not be able to remove its counter to use his inbuilt MST...then again that is for the fact Skill Drain would 'remove' the counter until it was destroyed

If Breaker has a counter and Skill Drain resolves, then Breaker will be reset and Breaker's counter will disappear. It won't go back even though Skill Drain leaves the field.

 

[Spike Kaiba]

yeah good point

 

[woltarr]

skill drain has no power over monsters that tribute themselves to activate theirs effcts as seen in the cases of exiled force, cannon soldier(if tribute for its own effct)

skill drain dont stop effct from being activated ,only negate its resolution

as such horus 6 can tribute itself to special sumon horus 8 because when the effct resolve , he will not be on the field anymore


woltarr

 

[Raigekick]

woltar, you are correct that Skill Drain will not affect monsters if they are not on the field anymore during resolution.

I am also incorrect in assuming Skill Drain will negate the activation of Trigger Effects because as stated in Netrepâ„¢:

Skill Drain
6. "Skill Drain" does not stop you from activating Trigger Effects, but it does negate their effects as long as the Effect Monster remains on the field.....

That said, this is my reasoning why Horus Lvl 6 effect won't work:

When Horus Lvl 6 destroys a monster, its state of destroying a monster is now set to true. However, since Skill Drain is out, its state is reset, so now its state is not destroyed a monster yet. On End Phase, it's Trigger Effect won't work because it does not know if he has destroyed a monster or not. Horus LV6 can be reset if you flip it face down as stated below.

Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6
Dragon/Fire/6/2300/1600
As long as this card remains face-up on your side of the field, it is unaffected by any Spell Cards. During the End Phase of a turn that this card destroyed a monster as a result of battle, send this card to the Graveyard to Special Summon 1 "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8" from your hand or Deck.

Rule:
6. If a level monster fulfills its condition to Special Summon the next-highest level (for example, if "Armed Dragon LV5" destroys a monster as a result of battle), and the level monster is then flipped face-down, or removed from play permanently, or sent to the Graveyard and then Special Summoned from the Graveyard, then its condition is reset and it is no longer considered to have met the condition to level up to the next level.

Now, will Skill Drain reset him also? If he does, then his Trigger Effect won't kick in.

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

i don't think destroying a monster is part of an effect.

Horus Lv 6 has a condition to activate its effect. You can only activate its effect if it has destroyed a monster. Just like you may only activate an agent's effect when your life points are higher than your opponents. It's a condition telling you when it's okay to activate the effect.

The reason why the condition resets when Horus lv 6 is turned face-down or removed from the field, is just that, it left the field. When it comes back it's a different monster for the rules. A monster like Blowback Dragon can use its effect again after being flipped face-down and flipped face-up again for the same reason.