Jinzo vs. Cloak And Dagger

[Machinefreak]

I'm confused. Cloak And Dagger is supposed to remove itself and whatever monster you named if your opponent summoned it. Well, here's a scenario:

During your turn, you activate your set Cloak And Dagger. You declare "Jinzo".

Then, during your opponent's turn, if they summon Jinzo, is Cloak And Dagger negated by Jinzo's effect or are they both removed by Cloak And Dagger's effect?

Help is appreciated!

 

[densetsu_x]

Based on the rulings and the examples they give (such as being able to chain Inferno Reckless Summon to the effect of Cloak and Dagger), the presumtion is that the monster has been Summoned Successfully. Because of that, Jinzo would have his effect already active thereby negating Cloak and Dagger. So, don't bother calling Jinzo for Cloak and Dagger (unless Skill Drain is on the field).

 

[masterwoo0]

Since it states that the monster must be summoned in order to "trigger" its effect, by the time Jinzo is successfully summoned to the field, Cloak and Dagger would be negated. It should function much the same way for Elemental Hero Wildheart and Tenkabito Shien as well, since they are unaffected by Trap Cards, and this isnt a situation like "Skill Drain", since Skill Drain would negate their effects, and cause them to be affected by Traps.

Even if it wasn't Jinzo that they called, and the named monster was "Cyber Dragon" instead, and Jinzo was later summoned before a Cyber Dragon, it still shouldnt cause Cyber Dragon to be removed because the effect is negated.

EDIT: Curses... Beaten by densetsu_x

 

[Machinefreak]

OK, thanks guys!

Also, here's another question: What if you declare such monsters with ignition effects, such as Exiled Force? Would they be destroyed, or would they get their effects when summoned successfully? (Maybe that's what Pulling The Rug/Divine Wrath is for...) >.<

 

[masterwoo0]

OK, thanks guys!

Also, here's another question: What if you declare such monsters with ignition effects, such as Exiled Force? Would they be destroyed, or would they get their effects when summoned successfully? (Maybe that's what Pulling The Rug/Divine Wrath is for...) >.<

Since it appears that Cloak and Dagger triggers as soon as the summoned monster hits the field, Spell Speed 1 (Ignition Effects) would be unable to activate, much like the situation with Stumbling, but if it was a Trigger Effect, like Mobius or Zaborg, the effect still goes through since Cloak and Dagger doesnt negate summons.

 

[cuzwbd]

Based on the rulings and the examples they give (such as being able to chain Inferno Reckless Summon to the effect of Cloak and Dagger), the presumtion is that the monster has been Summoned Successfully. Because of that, Jinzo would have his effect already active thereby negating Cloak and Dagger. So, don't bother calling Jinzo for Cloak and Dagger (unless Skill Drain is on the field).

i've been experimenting with cloak & dagger too - i would have thought that it would be similar to skill drain - whichever is on field and active first - apparently not tho'....can you tell me how this works?
also - how does cloak & dagger interact with a set gravekeeper's spy...it and spy's flip both resolve at end/resolve effects part of damage step? turn player's c&d first link , spy's summon another 2nd link resolve backwards??kill/remove both spy's???
how about C & D and a set kinetic when attacked by a warrior should get boost in damage calc but is removed at resolve effects?? or before dmg calc like the effect of final attack orders?
its early and i'm hazy yet.... :?

 

[Entropy]

1) It's not really like Skill Drain. It's more like Trap Hole/Torrential Tribute. Since the effect Triggers and forms a chain, Continuous effects activate first.

Example: Jinzo is summoned, and his effect immediately applies. After, C&D tries to trigger and begin a chain. But, Jinzo negates it, so it can't activate.

Parallel example: Jinzo is summoned, and his effect immediately applies. Since his effect is active, you cannot activate Trap Hole in response to the summon.

2) I'm guessing that it would wait until the end of the Damage Step, like Flip effects.

And, if you Summon another Gravekeeper's Spy, it would probably act like Bottomless Trap Hole. The first one will be removed, but not the second.