jinzo vs torrential tribute

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cabyx

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here is a question that i have debated on again and agian but no one has been able to tell me the answer
finally some body told me to check this site

question jinzo vs torrential tribute

this is my arguement;
jinzo the monster is not the same as jinzos effect
so the summoning of the monster jinzo is not the same as the activation of jinzos effect

with that isnt it the same thing as imperial order vs mst

here is how i pictured it going


player a summons jinzo which has no speed and does not switch priority to player b

jinzo's effect(spell speed 1) ativates but does not resolve

player b activates torrential tribute(spell speed 2)

chain goes this way

link 1 jinzo's effect activates
link 2 torrential tribute's effect activates

chain resolves

link 2 torrentil destroys all monsters
link 1 jinzo's effect disappears because jinzo is no longer on the field

please agree or dis agree with me
 
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Summons don't work like Imperial Order because Summons don't have a spell speed. You may not chain to a summon. Jinzo's effect resolves without being chained to. Torrential Tribute may not be activated.
 
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The effect of "Jinzo" does not form a chain in any way.

As soon as you summon "Jinzo" his effect is on the field; it doesn't 'activate', its just 'there'.

By the time you could legally activate "Torrential Tribute", "Jinzo's" effect would already be on the field, so it can not be activated.
 
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the monster and the effect r not the same and the effect must be activated at some point

torrential is activated in response to a summon and is a faster effect

the effect cant just be there

or there is no way mst could stop imperial order
 
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i found this written by michael palmer

Priority v. 1.1

By Michael Palmer

It's come to my attention that many of the questions being asked on our forums here at netrep.net have been the same questions regarding priority and specific monsters and how they interact. First, I'll say the golden rule that no one seems to understand as of right now. A monster does not have priority! YOU THE PLAYER HAVE PRIORITY!!! Some people just don't understand that so the first thing we always say while answering questions is "This monster doesn't have priority, no monster has priority. The player has the priority." So make sure you rephrase your questions before posting them if you ever ask about a monster's priority.

With that pushed aside, I thought up a few situations with certain monsters that you could use their effects with while using YOUR priority:

Player A summons Tribe-Infecting Virus to the field.
Player B responds with Trap Hole.
Player A choose to use turn priority to activate Tribe's effect.
Player B's Trap Hole is then added on the chain as link 2.

Chain:
Link 1: Tribe-Infecting Virus's effect is activated.
Link 2: Trap Hole is activated.

Resolution:
Link 2: Trap Hole first resolves since it was the last card on the chain and destroys Tribe-Infecting Virus.
Link 1: Then Tribe's effect resolves since it was not negated destroying all monsters of the specific type called.

Reason: I know what many of you are thinking. How can a card resolve fully if it's no longer present on the field at resolution? Well, to put it quite simply, it's like chaining MST to Raigeki. Even though you destroyed Raigeki in the chain, it's effect was never negated so it will resolve as normal even though it was destroyed in the resolution step before it's resolution would take place. The same goes with Tribe and any other monster, it's effect is being chained to with the trap card being responded with. Since you can't chain to a summon, the trap card would have to be chained to the cost effect of the monster. Since the trigger effect is spell speed 1, it would have to be the first link in the chain. Then you add on the speed 2 effect of the trap card, in this case it was Trap Hole, and it destroy Tribe first and then Tribe's effect destroys all monsters of the specific type called.

explain that
 
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same idea though when it is summoned the effect is activated giving u a chance to chain the effect before it resolves

imperial order is a continuos effect and u cannot deny that

y is jinzo and different
 
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Because its a continuous effect.

Continuous effects resolve without "activating", they can even resolve in between steps of a chain.

Raijinili should have the Translation of the Steps that happen when a monster is summoned, as far as i know it hasn't been released by Upperdeck yet.
 
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we all know for sure that you CANNOT chain to the summon of a monster and IO and jinzo are VERY different. Heres some examples of how to prove this...

it goes like this for jinzo
step 1: sac for jinzo (jinzos effect activates automatically
step 2: your opponent cannot activate any traps and jinzo pwns
as simple as that...

it goes like this for IO
step 1: you activate a spell card
step 2: opponent activates IO in response to the spell
step 3: you chain IO with MST
since IO hasnt resolved you can still activate spells in chain to IO.

in reverse order
step 2:MST destroys IO without it being resolved
step 1:the origional spell card played is now resolved
 
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