[judge-yu] Limiter Removal and Kinetic Soldier again

[UDEbot]

QUESTION:
Hi,

Curtis stated that Kinetic's effect has to be Chain Link 1 since it has
Spell Speed 1.

That's fine with me, makes a lot of sense.

But why aren't you allowed to simply start a second chain after the first
chain with the Kinetic-effect resolved??

The rulings change stated that it is possible to start more than one chain
during the Battle Phase.
So players tend to think this is also possible in the Damage Step.

Could you clear this up???

Is it possible to:

1)
Attack with a X-Head Cannon
In the Damage Step activate Limiter
Opponent chains Magic Jammer

Start a new Chain in the same Damage Step and activate another Limiter?


2)
Attack with Kinetic Soldier a Warrior
Let the automatically started Chain with Kinetics effect resolve
-> so Kinetic's up on 3350

Now start a new Chain in the Damage Step with Limiter in order to push
Kinetic's ATK to 6700?


Thanks a lot in advance,

Greetz,

soul
=============================================================================
ANSWER:

Curtis asked me to clear up a few things about this, just so everyone is clear.
(Then I'll go back to beating my head against the wall over the "Blast with
Chain" rulings I'm working on.)

1. Curtis made a small error in his previous answer. The reason that the effect
of "Kinetic Soldier" is required to be first on the chain is not because it is a
Spell Speed 1 effect. The reason is that it is a mandatory Trigger Effect that
is having its trigger condition satisfied. Therefore, it "fires off" before
anybody can do anything about it. (If multiple mandatory Trigger Effects fire
off simultaneously, then of course they would go on a chain.) As a result,
nothing is going to get put in front of it on the chain (except another
mandatory Trigger Effect, and then only if it is controlled by the turn player
AND he/she wishes it to be below "Kinetic Soldier" on that chain).


2. Please don't read too much into the legality of multiple chains. Yes, you
can have multiple chains, but for the most part that's only practical during
the Battle Step (the first half of each attack) and for mandatory Trigger
Effects during the Damage Step.

For example:
You CAN activate "Waboku", have it negated by your opponent's "Seven Tools of the
Bandit", then start a second chain with "Mirror Wall" or such during the same
Battle Step.

You CAN have a chain where "Airknight Parshath" attacks "Mystic Tomato", and
"Divine Wrath" is chained to the effect of "Airknight Parshath" to negate and
destroy it, and then another "Divine Wrath" is chained to the effect of
"Mystic Tomato" to negate it. That's 2 chains at 2 separate points during the
same Damage Step.

However, there are certain specific points during an attack at which a required
element of the attack is happening. Examples: declaring an attack, flipping the
target face-up, performing damage calculation, sending monsters to the Graveyard.
In each of these cases, the action being performed, if it involves effects that
can be chained, is a One-Time-Only-Everything-Must-Happen-NOW event. You don't
get 2 different rolls of the dice on damage calculation, for example. If you
have Trigger Effects that happen with damage calculation, they all go in a chain.
You want to activate optional effects or cards on top of that, they go in the
same chain. You don't get more than one chance at this.

The fact that you can have multiple chains during the same Battle Phase just
means that you can do lots of stuff in the nebulous middle portion of the
Battle Step, and prevents the messy "You can't activate 'Mystic Tomato' because
I already activated 'Castle Walls'." arguments, and other such foolishness.


3. Note that you CAN activate "Limiter Removal" during your Main Phase 1,
Standby Phase, Draw Phase, or any point in the Battle Step, double your
"Kinetic Soldier" ATK to 2700, then increase it to 4700 during damage
calculation.

Kevin Tewart
Game Devleoper
UDE Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG R&D Lead
Upper Deck Entertainment
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[soulwarrior]

I don't like Mr. Tewarts
' I do it myself because anybody else (of course: instead of me) makes mistakes ' - tone...
but this post was useful... at least in my eyes.

Unfortunately, they hadn't cleared that up at the announcement of the rulings change and since then people in my area thought that it would be possible to use several chains for boosting the ATK of an attacking monster.

So it's not possible and you only get several chains on specific points of the Battle Phase, like the Battle Step.

soul

 

[densetsu_x]

Part of the issue is that the Battle Step is far less complex than the Damage Step. The Battle Step you declare your attack and that's it. The Damage Step has several points where effects can resolve, when monsters are flipped, when damage is calculated, when monsters are sent to the Graveyard, etc. So while I was thinking the way you were originally, it does make a little more sense as to why it's a tad more limited since there are numerous "sub-steps" within the Damage Step.

That would also explain why on "Injection Fairy Lily" vs. "Mirror Wall", that IFL will end up being 3200 since if you are attacking with her, you will get to activate her effect first and your opponent can only chain "Mirror Wall" which will resolve first and halve the 400.

But look at it this way. You can pull off this slick combo. "DNA Surgery" to make everything Machine-types. You attack with "Injection Fairy Lily". You know your opponent doesn't have anything that can negate Spell Cards or "Divine Wrath". During the Damage Step, activate "Limiter Removal", chain it to a 2nd if you have it, and lastly since IFL's effect is Multi-Trigger, chain that as the last thing in the chain. Resolution? IFL is raised to 3400, and then the 1st LR resolves raising her to 6800 and if you had a 2nd one, she gets raised to a game winning 13600. Thank you for playing, have a nice day.