Limiter Removal / Different Dimension Dragon

J

John Danker

Administrator
An interesting question was posed to me recently in PM.

As far as I can see it hinges on weather Limiter Removal's destruction of effected monsters is part of the spell card's effect or if it's a condition.

The scenario is this...

D.D. Dragon is face up on the field. DNA Surgery is activated and Limiter Removal is used to boost the new "Machine" to double its ATK.

Later, DNA Surgery is removed from the field in that same turn. DD Dragon is no longer a Machine. Does it keep the ATK boost? Can it be destroyed, considering Limiter Removal is not specifically targetting it?

Now as far as I can see it wouldn't matter weather DNA Surgery was still active in the end phase or not, it would appear to me that if Limiter Removal's destroying monsters it effects in the end phase is indeed part of it's effect then Different Dimension Dragon is safe....if it's a condition then Different Dimension Dragon is destroyed. I've never been a good one at templating so I'm asking for references (which I cannot find) regarding what that part of Limiter Removal is....card effect, condition, or lingering effect (the last of which will probably confuse me futher)
 
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In this instance, it's true. It doesn't matter that it's no longer a Machine-Type monster in the end phase. "Limiter Removal" destroys all cards in the end phase that it had an effect on.
 
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I'm just curious. Whether it was an lingering effect, or a lingering condition, where would it make a difference? As I understand both instances, neither one can be negated, only replaced.
 
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It makes a difference because of the text of Different Dimension Dragon

Text
This card cannot be destroyed by the effect of a Spell or Trap Card that does not target it. This card is not destroyed as a result of battle against a monster with an ATK of 1900 or less.
 
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Well, these two excerpts from "Limiter Removal"s rulings indicate it is an effect that is destroying them...

[Re: Heavy Mech Support Platform] If you have a monster, "X-Head Cannon" for example, equipped with "Heavy Mech Support Platform", and you activate "Limiter Removal", the ATK will becomes (1800 + 500) x 2 = 4600. Also, the "Heavy Mech Support Platform" will be destroyed instead of the "X-Head Cannon" during the End Phase (by the effect of "Limiter Removal").
Click to expand...
[Re: Interdimensional Matter Transporter] When "Karate Man", or a monster affected by "Limiter Removal", is removed from play with "Interdimensional Matter Transporter", it is not destroyed that turn because the effect of "Karate Man"/"Limiter Removal" is reset.
Click to expand...

Hardly conclusive, but there you go. Maybe it will stick around. Good question! ;)
 
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John Danker said:
It makes a difference because of the text of Different Dimension Dragon

Text
This card cannot be destroyed by the effect of a Spell or Trap Card that does not target it. This card is not destroyed as a result of battle against a monster with an ATK of 1900 or less.
Click to expand...
Oh okay. I see. Well, here's what I found under Heavy Mech Support Platform:

If you have a monster, "X-Head Cannon" for example, equipped with "Heavy Mech Support Platform", and you activate "Limiter Removal", the ATK will becomes (1800 + 500) x 2 = 4600. Also, the "Heavy Mech Support Platform" will be destroyed instead of the "X-Head Cannon" during the End Phase (by the effect of "Limiter Removal").​

EDIT: Hmmm. Dial-up is extra slow today.
 
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So based on the scant references we have so far it looks as though Different Dimesion Dragon would survive since it's not a targeting effect and it's referenced as part of the Limiter Removal's card effect.....really interesting. What's more, Different Dimension Dragon would keep the atk boost.
 
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Same thing could be said about this scenario.

Player A had activated Last Will and Player B chains Call of the Haunted to bring back Jowgen the Spiritualist. Now Last Will's lingering effect is being prevented from resolving.

Limiter Removal's lingering effect (which is an effect still). So I'd say that Different Dimension Dragon wouldn't be destroyed by Limiter Removal's lingering effect. I'm probably wrong on that.

However, if it turns out that Limiter Removal doesn't have a lingering effect and it's a condition, then it will destroy D.D. Dragon. Then that poses the question on why Return From the Different Dimension doesn't remove Wildheart if he's only unaffected by the "effects" of Trap Cards. If RFTDD has a condition, then Wildheart should be removed from play at the end phase.

=P Fun fun. Right John? XD
 
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The RfDD / Wildheart question remain unexplained (the mechanics of it) We've been round and round on that one...hate to open that can of worms up....though I would love it the mechanics to be expalined officialy.

I believe the most recent on-site ruling from Dan at a recent SJC on Wildheart vs. Threatening Roar though was that Wildheart could not attack...another condition. I suspect (admitedly with nothing to back it up) that RfDD and Wildheart has to do something with the fact that Wildheart is part of RfDD resolution thereby ignoring it....just a theory mind you.
 
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Just makes you wonder what other nice little annoyances they plan to cook up for us to chew on. I'd really like to see them officially come out and say what lingering effects are compared to conditions. Define the two seperately or consider them the same. Hard to say what they'd do on that and if we had the information on what both of those 'terms' mean then we might have more solid facts as to how a good handful of cards function. A dream at best. Lol...

<goes off to fix himself a cheese sandwich...>
 
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Wait a minute... <I hate to be a needle in a haystack> but if Limiter Removal destoying affected monsters at the end was an effect, that would mean that would mean that if Spell Canceller was summoned after Limiter Removal no monsters would be destroyed...

I do believe that would not be the case.
 
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Even a lingering effect cannot negated. And a lingering conditions would be no different, except for the purposes of making certain determinations.

I'm a little confused though. Is Limiter Removal being a lingering effect really in questions? It seems all the evidence is pointing to that.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
Even a lingering effect cannot negated. And a lingering conditions would be no different, except for the purposes of making certain determinations.
Click to expand...

Somehow my vocabulary has gotten much shorter this past few days... this is what I was trying to get to or explain anyways... im not sure I understand why D.D. Dragon would not be affected by a lingering effect... to my knowledge, only monsters unaffected by spells/traps can walk over lingering effects.
 
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