I summon from my graveyard, let's say, Majestic Mech-Ohka, during my opponent's turn. I activate Interdimensional Matter Transporter removing MMO from play until the end of the turn. At the end phase MMO returns to the field. But due to it's effect isn't it then sent to the graveyard, making IMT a useless move?
Majestic Mechs vs. IMT
- Thread starter D.M.E.N.
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Interdimensional Matter Transporter doesn't Special Summon a monster, it simply returns it to the field at the End Phase.
The rulings say a summon is not forgotten if a Majestic Mech is flipped face-down ad flipped back up later that turn. It's possible this extends to removing it from play as well, but I would think the rulings would have specified that if it had been the case.
The rulings say a summon is not forgotten if a Majestic Mech is flipped face-down ad flipped back up later that turn. It's possible this extends to removing it from play as well, but I would think the rulings would have specified that if it had been the case.
Zarem said:
This is incorrect, first of all Interdimentional Matter Transporter, does not Special Summon anything.
Second:
The effect of "Majestic Mech - Ohka" and "Majestic Mech - Goryu" that sends itself to the Graveyard will activate during the End Phase of every turn (if they were Normal Summoned with fewer Tributes by using their effect).
Ohka and Goryu, don't care about anything, they will be destroyed.
masterwoo0
NINJA4LIFE
Well, not in this case, because Ohka was Special Summoned by an effect from the Graveyard, so it wasnt Normal Summoned without Tribute regardless of IMT.slither said:
Then it stands to reason, if a Majestic Mech forgets it was Normal Summoned after being reborn from the Graveyard, then it should also forget if it is removed from play before the End Phase.masterwoo0 said:
masterwoo0
NINJA4LIFE
I had this discussion with someone else on another Yugioh Forum....Digital Jedi said:
Removing a monster from play doesnt destroy it. A monster in the Graveyard is considered "destroyed" regardless of how it got there, which is why you cannot activate Divine Wrath on a monster that activates its effect in the Graveyard to "destroy it", but you can still negate the effect that acitvates.
Since Majestic Mech - Ohka would be considered destroyed while in the Graveyard, unless he has a condition placed on him once he is destroyed, his previous summon to the field is irrelevant. Being removed from play doesnt reset his effect because the RFG area doesnt exist as a formal Graveyard, and Ohka's condition is not something you can reset since he has not been destroyed and sent to the Graveyard.
Ohka's effect is only active while face-up on the field. It is not active while removed from play. If he is summoned without Tribute, and removed from play, he is still summoned without Tribute. If he is destroyed by Bottomless Trap Hole and removed from play, he was still initially destroyed after being Normal Summoned without Tribute, and since he never made it to the Graveyard, he is in that "inbetween" area where his condition still exist as being Normal Summoned without Tribute.
I think that the Graveyard resets a monsters internal effect, but not a condition placed upon it by a external effect, like Dark Ruler Ha Des. Otherwise, how do you explain the fact that you can Special Summon by Premature Burial a negated Treeborn Frog and it still get its effect when destroyed again?
I can see where there needs to be clarification on the Majestic Mech's, as there is precedence to say that a monster doesnt forget how it was summoned, ie, Chaos Sorcerer and removing a light/Dark. It was properly summoned, which means you can reborn it since it doesnt forget that it was summoned correctly.
If the Majestic Mech's perform the same way, then that would certainly be something I can agree with, but the card text states that "If this card is Normal Summoned without Tribute..."
I believe the mechanics have it that monster never forgets how it was summoned. That is why even if a monster like Cyber Dragon that was Special Summoned initially, then flipped face-down (say by Book of Moon) and then Flip Summoned on the next turn would still be destroyed by the effect of Jowgen the Spiritualist or Special Hurricane (even a ruling on Special Hurricane states that: "¢ If a monster is Special Summoned, then removed from the field with "Interdimensional Matter Transporter", and returns to the field, "Special Hurricane" WILL destroy it if activated after it returns to the field.)
So even if you IMT an Ohka that was normal summoned without Tribute, it would still be destroyed in the end phase.
So even if you IMT an Ohka that was normal summoned without Tribute, it would still be destroyed in the end phase.
masterwoo0
NINJA4LIFE
No one is disputing that. What is in dispute is if it also lays claim to a "Summoned without Tribute" Ohka that is destroyed and reborn from the Graveyard.densetsu_x said:
masterwoo0 said:
If it's reborn from the Graveyard then at that point it's considered to have been Special Summoned. That's how it was brought to the field. That would override any other way it may have been summoned before.
I'm a little confused here. It woulds seem to me that if the summon is forgotten regardless of it was sent to the Graveyard, then it shouldn't be able to remember if it were removed from play either. The ruling only speaks to a Okha that never left the field, not one that returns to the hand or is temporarily removed form play.
MightyDingo
New Member
It was Normal Summoned originally, but Special Summoned last from the GY. I would think that that would override the original summons-type and negate the destruction effect. It seems logical, but who knows. :?
HorusMaster
New Member
Digital Jedi said:
I think if the card returns to the hand, the effect resets itself as you would normal summon the monster again (presumably, disregarding special summons from the hand). If it is normal summoned again without appropriate tribute, then the effect of being destroyed at the end phase applies. I think if the card is removed from play before the effect resolves, then on the turn it returns to the field, it's effect still applies and it is destroyed during the end phase. Removing the card from play doesn't negate the effect of being destroyed at the end phase. But that's OMO (only my opinion).
masterwoo0
NINJA4LIFE
The card doesnt destroy itself. It sends itself to the Graveyard if it is Normal Summoned without Tribute.HorusMaster said:
HorusMaster
New Member
masterwoo0 said:
Semantics on the wording...I know, I know- "game mechanics" but don't you think people generally understand "destroying itself" and "sends itself to the graveyard" as being somewhat the same thing? Would it be any less different if the card text read "this card self-destructs during the end phase of the turn it was summoned without tribute" ? Either way it ends up in the graveyard or removed from play dependent on field condition at the time.
It would matter, if an effect were looking for the one of the two different Game Mechanics.
masterwoo0
NINJA4LIFE
Sometimes you can argue a case where specific wording is not necessary, but Send does not equal Destroy, and there are several effects in the game that look for monsters to be destroyed, rather than just "sent", like Sand Moth. If he merely said, "When this card is sent to the Graveyard..." He would probably be in everyone's Side Deck. Even if it only said, "When this card is destroyed", it would be a great card. But it is very specific on how it is destroyed. So it is that we have to be very specific on when we use the word as well.HorusMaster said:
HorusMaster
New Member
masterwoo0 said:
Yes, but in the case of Sand Moth, if the card text read "sent to the graveyard by your opponent's card effect" then wouldn't that equate to being destroyed? Either way, it's off the field because of the opponent's card effect and although not by battle, isn't it still destroyed?