Mobius the Frost Monarch
- Thread starter lordjacot
- Start date
paladinforce
New Member
Yep, that's correct. And remeber that mobius effect is optional :wink:
DaGuyWitBluGlasses
New Member
paladinforce said:
Mobius' effect is NOT optional. Mobius' effect activates immediately when it is summoned. The controller selects up to 2 spell or trap cards at its activation-- One, Two, or ZERO are all acceptable choices.
paladinforce
New Member
I think you misunderstood me. With zero as an option, the effect is considered optional, besides, the card text reads that you can destroy "up to" 2 spell or trap cards.
Mobius' effect is optional actually since it does mention the word "can" as part of the effect description. Also from the FAQ:
"¢ If "Mobius the Frost Monarch" is Tribute Summoned by the effect of "Ultimate Offering" in the middle of a chain (and is not the last step of the chain to resolve), then you have missed the timing on his effect and you cannot activate his effect to destroy 2 Spell or Trap Cards.
So, it is optional.
- Andrew
"¢ If "Mobius the Frost Monarch" is Tribute Summoned by the effect of "Ultimate Offering" in the middle of a chain (and is not the last step of the chain to resolve), then you have missed the timing on his effect and you cannot activate his effect to destroy 2 Spell or Trap Cards.
So, it is optional.
- Andrew
...and paladinforce is also correct...
The entire activation and effect is completely optional, you can also choose 0.
While there is no apparent logical reason for it, you could (theoretically) choose to activate it (trigger it), and then choose 0 Spell/Trap cards to destroy. This would be similar to choosing 0 cards to search for with [Thunder Dragon], or 0 monsters returned to the hand with [Penguin Soldier].
The entire activation and effect is completely optional, you can also choose 0.
While there is no apparent logical reason for it, you could (theoretically) choose to activate it (trigger it), and then choose 0 Spell/Trap cards to destroy. This would be similar to choosing 0 cards to search for with [Thunder Dragon], or 0 monsters returned to the hand with [Penguin Soldier].
DaGuyWitBluGlasses
New Member
This is from the Judge's list:
"""""""""""
a. Let's say my opponent tribute summons his Mobius the Frost Monarch to the field
and then I respond with Torrential Tribute to destroy all monsters on the field.
Will Mobius the Frost Monarch's effect kick in and allow my opponent to destroy up
to 2 of my S/T cards? In otherwords, does Mobius the Frost Monarch have priority
to destroy up to 2 S/T cards?
b. If so, is there a way to destroy a card like Mobius the Frost Monarch without
my opponent activating it's effect?
Answer:
I see this often enough that it merits an answer one more time.
First: This has NOTHING to do with priority. NOTHING.
When a player successfully Tribute Summon "Mobius the Frost Monarch," its effect
automatically activates. They designate two Spell/Trap Card targets. Then they ask
their opponent: "Do you wish to respond?"
Now their opponent gets a chance to respond. If they decide to respond with
one of the cards that were designated as a target, then so be it. They most
certainly can do that.
Since the most recent thing to resolve in the game was the successful Tribute
Summon of a monster, the opponent can activate "Trap Hole," "Bottomless Trap Hole,"
"Torrential Tribute," and any number of other "I punish you for Summoning" Traps.
And they will be doing this in a chain to the effect of "Mobius the Frost
Monarch"
So it looks like this:
Mobius the Frost Monarch's effect --> [Opponent's Torrential Tribute, w/e]
Chains resolve last-to-first, so the opponent's card effect will resolve first.
Mobius' effect would then destroy any of the two cards it had targeted with its
effect that still remain on the field.
Ask yourself: if I Normal Summon "Marauding Captain," can my opponent
activate "Trap Hole?" -- Sure they can.
Does it form a chain with "Marauding Captain's" effect? -- Of course.
As for stopping it:
The key is in the words "successfully Normal Summoned/Tribute Summoned."
This refers to a player using card's like "Horn of Heaven" or "Solemn Judgment"
to negate the Summon. If you use one of these effects and negate the Summon it
will no longer be successful and thus the "successfully Summoned" effect of that
monster will not activate.
A card like "Bottomless Trap Hole" does not do this. In fact, "Bottomless Trap Hole"
can only activated if the Summon is successful, at which point the effect will
already have activated. (as explained above)
"Skill Drain" can negate the monster's effect when its resolves, so long as the
Summoned monster is still face-up on the field when its effect resolves.
---------------------------------------
Curtis Schultz
Official UDE Netrep
CurtisSchultz_Netrep@Hotmail.com
""""""""""
"""""""""""
a. Let's say my opponent tribute summons his Mobius the Frost Monarch to the field
and then I respond with Torrential Tribute to destroy all monsters on the field.
Will Mobius the Frost Monarch's effect kick in and allow my opponent to destroy up
to 2 of my S/T cards? In otherwords, does Mobius the Frost Monarch have priority
to destroy up to 2 S/T cards?
b. If so, is there a way to destroy a card like Mobius the Frost Monarch without
my opponent activating it's effect?
Answer:
I see this often enough that it merits an answer one more time.
First: This has NOTHING to do with priority. NOTHING.
When a player successfully Tribute Summon "Mobius the Frost Monarch," its effect
automatically activates. They designate two Spell/Trap Card targets. Then they ask
their opponent: "Do you wish to respond?"
Now their opponent gets a chance to respond. If they decide to respond with
one of the cards that were designated as a target, then so be it. They most
certainly can do that.
Since the most recent thing to resolve in the game was the successful Tribute
Summon of a monster, the opponent can activate "Trap Hole," "Bottomless Trap Hole,"
"Torrential Tribute," and any number of other "I punish you for Summoning" Traps.
And they will be doing this in a chain to the effect of "Mobius the Frost
Monarch"
So it looks like this:
Mobius the Frost Monarch's effect --> [Opponent's Torrential Tribute, w/e]
Chains resolve last-to-first, so the opponent's card effect will resolve first.
Mobius' effect would then destroy any of the two cards it had targeted with its
effect that still remain on the field.
Ask yourself: if I Normal Summon "Marauding Captain," can my opponent
activate "Trap Hole?" -- Sure they can.
Does it form a chain with "Marauding Captain's" effect? -- Of course.
As for stopping it:
The key is in the words "successfully Normal Summoned/Tribute Summoned."
This refers to a player using card's like "Horn of Heaven" or "Solemn Judgment"
to negate the Summon. If you use one of these effects and negate the Summon it
will no longer be successful and thus the "successfully Summoned" effect of that
monster will not activate.
A card like "Bottomless Trap Hole" does not do this. In fact, "Bottomless Trap Hole"
can only activated if the Summon is successful, at which point the effect will
already have activated. (as explained above)
"Skill Drain" can negate the monster's effect when its resolves, so long as the
Summoned monster is still face-up on the field when its effect resolves.
---------------------------------------
Curtis Schultz
Official UDE Netrep
CurtisSchultz_Netrep@Hotmail.com
""""""""""
What Curtis says contradicts the ruling in the UDE FAQ and in those circumstances, we were told to go with what is in the FAQ. It would be worth asking him as a followup though.
- Andrew
- Andrew
I don't think it contradicts at all densetsu_x,
I really think it is a context issue, and Curtis is assuming that the Turn Player has opted to activate Mobius' effect. He is simply outlining the actual events and functionality of a Summon Trigger. He is not suggesting that Mobius' effect is not optional.
He is basically saying, that Summon Triggers, whether optional or not, are never a use of Summoning Priority. Because they automatically trigger when the specific event occurs.
Hope that helps
I really think it is a context issue, and Curtis is assuming that the Turn Player has opted to activate Mobius' effect. He is simply outlining the actual events and functionality of a Summon Trigger. He is not suggesting that Mobius' effect is not optional.
He is basically saying, that Summon Triggers, whether optional or not, are never a use of Summoning Priority. Because they automatically trigger when the specific event occurs.
Hope that helps
novastar said:
It's the choice of verbage that is leading to the contradiction:
When a player successfully Tribute Summon "Mobius the Frost Monarch," its effect
automatically activates. They designate two Spell/Trap Card targets. Then they ask
their opponent: "Do you wish to respond?"
By him saying it "automatically" activates, that implies the effect is manditory. But since the FAQ states that if Mobius is summoned in the middle of a chain (like with Ultimate Offering) and there are still effects that resolve after that, then the window of opportunity is gone. But Mobius would have been successfully tribute summoned so its effect should "automatically" activate. The FAQ says it won't.
That's the contradiction. Curtis isn't mentioning that the player chose to activate the effect. He was stating outright that Mobius was successfully tribute summoned, so his effect activates.
- Andrew
masterwoo0
NINJA4LIFE
Way I see it, since Mobius was Tribute Summoned successfully without the aid of effects, his effect would be automatically activated due to you (the summoning player) having priority. Now comes the part where everything got crazy. Mobius CAN destroy "up to" 2 spell or trap cards on the field. Whether they are 2 of yours, or your opponents, or a combination of the 2, it doesnt matter.
What does matter is that you have the choice to destroy 0-2 spell or traps on the field, regardless of position.
What does matter is that you have the choice to destroy 0-2 spell or traps on the field, regardless of position.
DaGuyWitBluGlasses
New Member
novastar said:
I've taught english so i can be biased towards "choice of verbage" [quoting densetsu_x])
Unfortunately a search of the specific rulings FAQ for the word trigger didn't seem to turn up relevant information so i can not make a comment about consistency so a follow up is merited.
PS: Sorry about copying in the whole message, i meant to crop out the a good chunk of it but i guess i hit the END button instead of Delete
That is not what i mean. It's important to understand that Curtis is addressing the actual question being asked. In it, there is no mention of UO or mid-chain triggering involved. It is a straight up Tribute Summon. That is the "context" i am refering to.densetsu_x said:
While using the verbage of "activates" might not be the best choice, it not completely incorrect.
In the case of a straight up Tribute Summon, the effect will always trigger, it will not automatically create a chain link, but it will always trigger and give the option. You are choosing to create that chain link, and that is where the arguement for Priority is being made.
So Curtis is saying that because the effect is being forced, it is not a use of Priority.