Mystic Swordsman vs. face-down flipped up

darkjason

darkjason

New Member
Mystic Swordsman says:
If this card attacks a face-down Defense Position monster, destroy the monster immediately with this card's effect without flipping it face-up or applying damage calculation

Sasuke Samurai says:
If this monster attacks a face-down Defense Position monster, destroy the face-down monster immediately with this card's effect without flipping it face-up or damage calculation.

and has the following ruling:
If "Sasuke Samurai" attacks a face-down monster, and "Ceasefire" is activated during the Battle Step to flip it face-up, "Sasuke Samurai" does not destroy it with its effect and damage calculation is applied normally. The monster must be face-down at the beginning of the Damage Step in order for "Sasuke Samurai" to activate its effect.

What I want to know is, does Mystic Swordsman also check the monster its attacking to see if it is still face down when his effect resolves? His wording is subtly different to his:
MS - destroy the monster immediately
vs.
SS - destroy the face-down monster immediately
 
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When you attack a face-down monster, your opponent may respond to the attack, or do nothing.

If they do not respond, you may activate the effect of a Quick-Play or Trap Card BEFORE you enter the Damage Step, that will have the effect of causing the attacked card to flip face-up.

If you or your opponent activate "Ceasefire", then the card would no longer be face-down when you entered the Damage Step, and it would then only be destroyed by Damage Calculation if Mystic Swordsman LV2 has a higher attack than the monsters defense.

Mystic Swordsman LV2, 4, and 6 all check the state of the monster it attacks all the way to the Damage Step.

Sasuke Samurai's effect is similar to mystic swordsman family, its just an older card.

You could still activate an effect that would flip the attacked monster face-up with the same timing, and cause it to have to go through Damage Calculation.

The statement "destroy immediately" is just a fancy term for "no damage calculation and no flip face-up will occur".
 
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Are we talking Sub-step 1 of Kevin's unpublished chart, or the same "Chart" that everyone has access to in the Rule Book.

It's more problems to explain something that is only a interpretation for now, than to clarify something that is in Black and White.
 
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Official or not, it's better than running off of nothing when someone asks you for details when they activate and resolve. Giving them a label is more satisfying in their minds. Also his chart might not be official, but it's at least it gives you some what of an idea where certain cards activate and where others activate. The chart makes complete sense so I don't know why you wouldn't use it for reference when game mechanics back it up.
 
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cause he doesnt use it either... Remember it was just a draft. there is nothing certain or 100% about it. there might be something way off with it.

M:TG has its battle phase as this.

Before attacks are declares - effect
Attacks are declared
- Effects
Blockers are declared
- Effects
Damage is assigned
- Effects
Damage is resolved
- Effects

see how clear that is? Yugi doesnt have that yet.. so we just go by what ever we can go by.

YOu know how many times ive found the GBA game have different sets of Activation points than the actual cardgame? Alot.

So if this is Konami's game they put up the rules and untill they release a comprehensive rule booklet there wont be any clear evidence of how many activation points there could / would be.
 
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As has been said before, the current Damage Step chart has the number of sub-steps that it does because that is the current number of defined effect monsters that have timing to fill those steps. Next month we could get 5 more monsters that would require 5 more sub-steps.

Yugioh is not a game defined by game mechanic. It is a game defined by Cards that have thus far been created. Ever growing, ever changing, and yes ever being misunderstood as well. I do believe that to this point the Damage Step chart Kevin gave us is accurate, but it in no ways restricts the potential for there to be many more steps if cards are created with that timing. I doubt very much the new Rulebook will go into more detail then what the Damage Step chart we have seen has (in fact I'll be shocked if it has half of the detail shown by Kevin's chart). That is the nature of Konami. They give demos and explanations with very simple cards and leave the complex stuff to card rulings.
 
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Thanks Anthonyj, that's exactly how I feel about it. I rather go by a chart that has small errors here and there than going off completely nothing. Like how Anthonyj has said, "Yugioh is not a game defined by game mechanic. It is a game defined by Cards that have thus far been created. Ever growing, ever changing, and yes ever being misunderstood as well." is very true and the chart was more clearly written under the notion of all those cards fitting the ideal places for them to activate and resolve in the Damage Step. The chart is fairly accurate - even if it isn't official.
 
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Think of it in the eyes of how Kevin made it. He created it based off where the cards activate and resolve. This shows effect activation and resolution locations does it not? I don't really see the big fuss is about it. There's a lot of stuff in this game that isn't official. Yet players accept it without really putting much thought into it.
 
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krazykidpsx said:
see thats the thing, untill there is somethin official.. Who will belive us?
Click to expand...

We can say the same thing about so many things in this game :D, but people would just have to follow until there is something published and official.
 
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Just as easily as they would accept, "It activates in the Damage Step."

Some monster effects really dont need that kind of level of explanation.

Are you going to sit down and explain the whole "Kevin Chart" in a Tournament?

Judge: "It activates in Sub-Step 5"

Player: "What is Sub-Step 5?"

Judge: "Blah, blah, blah."

Some explanations are not realistic for a tournament atmosphere, and are more suited towards "Duelist League's", where you have time to go over information that will not be understood initially.

If the player can absorb EXACTLY what you are telling him without disrupting the game flow, that's great, but what if they don't? At what point do you tell them, "You're going to have to move on with play."
 
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Cropz said:
Yu-Gi-Oh is an easy game, where all disputes can be solved by going back to the basics...
*wakes up*
oops.
Click to expand...
hmm.. makes sence to me huh..

DL and HL is the place to learn to play so by the time you get to Regional and major events YOU as the player DO NOT need to go about asking dumb questions.

but are they dumb? no they arnt they are honest questions becuase nobody really knows how to play the game.

"Mr. Tewart Chart" is just that a chart, it isnt based to be published or anything. You cannot use it for anything but know its there thats it. Same thing with the whole "Priority Essay" remember that?

oh yea I know you remember because its yet to be published.

again, it isnt Official [on www.yugioh-card.com] its not legit. You remember who stated this? I do.

so again, Unless you want players mad because they go to Yugioh-card.com and find nothing I suggest that when you tell them You specifically state It is not OFFICIAL source of information.

WE play the game as it is but it isnt OFFICIAL Konami documents that we have been using to play this game.

I droped the game becuase there isnt any Comprehensives rules on these kind of things.

Seriously if yugi had a comprehensive rules booklet on what the basics actaully is.. Maybe.. I dunno..
 
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We've all called for it. We've all cried for it. We've all shouted about it. I stand by my earlier statement on this thread. That isn't how Konami deals with this game. We get only the bare minimum information on things so often because a more elaborate answer may cross over ground that needs to change with the next card being released.

I think it highly possible that there were at one time more elaborate answers to questions in the OCG. And when the next set of cards were released people said "Hey that isn't how you said it worked last month!" Thus the cryptic information system was born. There are still to this day questions about how cards interact that I wouldn't hold my breath on getting answers to. Gray areas where Takahashi didn't forsee the potential problems and there aren't ready answers. It would be great if Konami/UDE could give us a detailed manual with all current rulings and just state up front that this manual will have to be amended as more cards are released or as processes are revised. I don't see that happening. The "game mechanics" are treated as if they just are, instead of being by-products of what has been thus far. I'm truly not sure if this is Takahashi's personal attitude towards ruling questions or if others very high up have been the source for this. Understanding the complexity of a detailed manual just with the cards up to this point, especially since you would pretty much have to go directly to Takahashi and look at all historical rulings with a grain of salt (many things have changed with time and some of them linger on though obviously no longer true). I truly can't imagine this undertaking being forthcoming. They can't even give us a definite answer on Priority and you think we can get everything nice neat and finalized in print?
 
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