F
franchise
Guest
when can u turn this trap card into face up postion?
chaosruler
New Member
Not exactly. You can only activate the effect when they declare an attack. You can flip the card up any time you can normally activate a continuous trap card. In fact it would NEED to be face up prior to the attack declaration if you want to use that effect for that attack. Otherwise you will miss the timing on it.
John Danker
Administrator
densetsu_x said:
I've been trying to explain this concept on a Fairy Box question on the UDE forums on the following thread concerning Fairy Box.
http://entertainment.upperdeck.com/community/forums/thread/201296.aspx
How can I make this more clear?
PS....John Danker=GeorgeOTJ
Ok... slight difference in wording.
Ordeal of the Traveller says "... when your opponent declares an attack." So the card must be face-up before the attack is made
Fairy Box (as stated there) says "Each time a monster on your opponent's side of the field attacks..." Notice for this effect, Fairy Box does not need to be face up when the attack is declared. In fact if you flip it face up in response to the monster declaring the attack, the effect will still go off. The monster is still considered to be "attacking" at that point even after the window for Sakuretsu Armor, Ordeal of the Traveller, etc. has passed.
And as Simon said there, though we are reluctant to use Video Games as precident (even if rulings have been changed to match how Konami has programmed these things in), in Power of Chaos: Joey the Destiny, this is how Konami programmed Fairy Box (since Joey always waits until you declare the attack before flipping up Fairy Box).
Ordeal of the Traveller says "... when your opponent declares an attack." So the card must be face-up before the attack is made
Fairy Box (as stated there) says "Each time a monster on your opponent's side of the field attacks..." Notice for this effect, Fairy Box does not need to be face up when the attack is declared. In fact if you flip it face up in response to the monster declaring the attack, the effect will still go off. The monster is still considered to be "attacking" at that point even after the window for Sakuretsu Armor, Ordeal of the Traveller, etc. has passed.
And as Simon said there, though we are reluctant to use Video Games as precident (even if rulings have been changed to match how Konami has programmed these things in), in Power of Chaos: Joey the Destiny, this is how Konami programmed Fairy Box (since Joey always waits until you declare the attack before flipping up Fairy Box).
John Danker
Administrator
For some reason I didn't realize that Fairy Box wasn't an optional effect. I'm trying to recall a similar card other than that is a continuous trap and not optional that would effect the attack and has the words "When an opponent attacks"....the only other one I can think of is Prepare To Strike Back.
We know that with continuous trap cards with optional effects you can't activate the card and then activate the effect in the same chain....however, when we have a scenario where the effect is mandatory and the trap card is continuous and activated in response to the attack and the card includes the words, "When a monster attacks"....the resolution of the continuous trap card to the field is the last thing to occur not the declaration of attack....or is my reasoning off here? (obviously I'm thinking out loud and my mind is cloudy on this one)
We know that with continuous trap cards with optional effects you can't activate the card and then activate the effect in the same chain....however, when we have a scenario where the effect is mandatory and the trap card is continuous and activated in response to the attack and the card includes the words, "When a monster attacks"....the resolution of the continuous trap card to the field is the last thing to occur not the declaration of attack....or is my reasoning off here? (obviously I'm thinking out loud and my mind is cloudy on this one)
Actually with Fairy Box, it wouldn't matter if it were the last thing to resolve. It would fall under the "Waboku" category as far as when you can activate it. It doesn't even have to be activated in that "I declared an attack" moment like the way Sakuretsu Armor would. All that matters after it resolves is "is there a monster attacking? If so, then let's flip a coin." You just can't activate it in the damage step (but you couldn't activate Waboku then either).
The only other card with the same text (though there's nothing in the rules that would help) is Jam Defender.
Mirror Wall is kinda fitting too (though that is a direct guarenteed modification to an ATK). If that's active before the attack is declared, then the attacking monster is halved as soon as the attack is declared. However, the attack would still be halved at any point after that too (even during the Damage Step in this case since it can be activated then). It doesn't have any specific activation timing. The only difference between this and Fairy Box is that the halving effect will go off when it resolves, while Fairy Box will start a new chain.
The only other card with the same text (though there's nothing in the rules that would help) is Jam Defender.
Mirror Wall is kinda fitting too (though that is a direct guarenteed modification to an ATK). If that's active before the attack is declared, then the attacking monster is halved as soon as the attack is declared. However, the attack would still be halved at any point after that too (even during the Damage Step in this case since it can be activated then). It doesn't have any specific activation timing. The only difference between this and Fairy Box is that the halving effect will go off when it resolves, while Fairy Box will start a new chain.
John Danker
Administrator
The only other cards that include the text, "Each time a monster"¦.." are:
Fairy Box
Ancient Gear Castle
Grave Ohja
Out of those only Fairy Box is a continuous trap. I'm not saying you're wrong by any means densetsu_x, I'm just not completely convinced the timing hasn't been missed. Thank you for pointing out that the text is certainly different ("Declares" VS "Each time a monster....attacks") That certainly could make the difference.
Does anyone else have something to compare this to?
Fairy Box
Ancient Gear Castle
Grave Ohja
Out of those only Fairy Box is a continuous trap. I'm not saying you're wrong by any means densetsu_x, I'm just not completely convinced the timing hasn't been missed. Thank you for pointing out that the text is certainly different ("Declares" VS "Each time a monster....attacks") That certainly could make the difference.
Does anyone else have something to compare this to?
John Danker said:
Ok, I'm going to try and extrapolate a little with Mirror Wall:
"Halve the ATK of your opponent's attacking monsters..."
Now, the rulings allow Mirror Wall to be activated in the Damage Step. That would mean the monster is considered to be "attacking" from the time the attack is declared up through Damage Step.
As such it is still considered "attacking" in the Battle Step even after the declaration is made. As such you have that state/condition active which fits in with Fairy Box that is just looking for an attacking monster.
John Danker
Administrator
I certainly see your point and I'm inclined to agree that Fairy Box doesn't miss the timing...as I said I'm just not convinced yet. I might point out that there is an arguable difference in the text of Mirror Wall and Fairy Box as well though...
Mirror Wall
"Halve the ATK of all your opponent's attacking monsters"
Fairy Box
"Each time a monster on your opponent's side of the field attacks"
Now we know that specific wording on english card text can and often times is messed up due to translation. This is another reason why I'm not completely convinced.
Mirror Wall
"Halve the ATK of all your opponent's attacking monsters"
Fairy Box
"Each time a monster on your opponent's side of the field attacks"
Now we know that specific wording on english card text can and often times is messed up due to translation. This is another reason why I'm not completely convinced.
Like I said, the best proof I can give you is... that's how it works in Joey the Passion. :-:
(Yeah I know, but since I can't give you irrefutable proof (or myself for that case), I'm just going with a "best guess".)
(Yeah I know, but since I can't give you irrefutable proof (or myself for that case), I'm just going with a "best guess".)
Just so you guys know, you can't activate "Ordeal of a Traveller" unless the opponent is attacking. It has the same activation window as "Sakuretsu Armor", even for the initial activation. It's the same as "Fairy Box". It is only worded the way it is because it's continuous and can be activated each time an attack is declared.
Chillout1984
New Member
Kyhotae said:
Where do you get that information from? The card only says that you can only activate his EFFECT when the opponent attacks, it doesn't say anything about the activation of the CARD.
IMO the card has the same activation timing as Royal Oppression: you can activate it at any time you could activate a continuous trap card that doesn't alter the atk/def.
Kyhotae said:
Actually... I'm beginning to think differently about Ordeal of the Traveller as far as when you can flip it face up. The wording may make it similar to cards like Sakuretsu Armor BUT, the rulings imply something ... different. However its timing is a little more restrictive than Fairy Box. Unfortunately I have work shortly so I'll have to go into greater detail later.
