Peten the Dark Clown -> an idea which could make the current ruling useless...

S

soulwarrior

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Hi,

no, I will not ask again, WHEN I can activate Peten's effect...

It's some new idea we came up with when we discussed about Peten.

Let's take for example Painful Choice:

You CAN activate Peten's effect, because Peten is sent to the Grave AT THE SAME time with the other cards.
So the last action that happens during the resolution of the chain is Peten arriving in the Graveyard.

BUT.. I think this is not correct, when you think of the card 'Painful Choice' itself.
After it's effect and the chain it started is completely resolved, the card 'Painful Choice' is sent to the Grave.
This would be another action happening after the action 'Peten arriving in the Graveyard'.

If this all would work like this... then you CAN NOT use Peten's effect when destroyed by Raigeki, etc.
The card would be quite useless...

So how does this system work? Does the arrival of the card which was responsible to sent Peten to the Grave NOT count as an action???

I know I'm going deep down... but forgive me! ^^

soul
soul.gif
 
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LoL, don't worry about it, you're doing what I normally do and that's think every possible part of a chain or how a card will interact with another card.

I see your point about Peten not being the last card sent to the graveyard, but Painful Choice, but I raise you (yes, I'm watching the World Series of Poker too much, ;)) another idea.

When every card that isn't continuous is activated and it resolves it is sent to the graveyard, this is very true and very common. But sending it to the graveyard takes place after the complete resolution. Peten's effect since being sent to the graveyard at the very end of the resolution would have an ability to resolve before Painful Choice itself hits the graveyard. Painful Choice being sent to the graveyard has nothing to do with any chain or resolution and it's just simply finished it's chain. Painful Choice going to the graveyard is a sign of the chain being over and another chain being able to start...

Ok... that's confusing... I know... but it's all I could come up with, ;).

It's maybe something that needs to be looked at again, but for right now we can only go by the current ruling on the card, and that's that in that situation as well as similar ones, it would be able to activate it's effect.
 
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I would assume that it is because Painful Choice was sent to the Graveyard as a result of a Game Mechanic that this is legal. This would also apply for Graceful Charity, etc. I can't think of instances where Peten wouldn't be legal to Special Summon when something Game Mechanic wise would prevent it.
 
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Isnt the resolution of Painful Choice the sending of the non-selected cards to the Graveyard?  Painful Choice should already be in the Graveyard once activated. 

Just like "Last Will".  It doesnt stick around on the field until a monster dies during that turn. 

I would think that the only reason Painful Choice stays on the field during the activation is to give your opponent the opportunity to respond to it being played. In which case, if a chain is started, you would not be able to select your five cards until the chain resolved successfully as you cannot resolve effects in the middle of a chain unless a monster would be destroyed.

So once Painful Choice makes it through the chain, it goes to the Graveyard and you pick your cards.
 
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Wait. Remember the ruling of Barrel Behind the Door and Chaos Emperor Dragon:

" Barrel Behind the Door" and "Trap of Board Eraser" can be chained to "Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End"'s effect. "Barrel Behind the Door" is, itself, sent to the Graveyard by "Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End"'s effect and counts for an additional 300 points as a result.

It is supposed that the activated cards remain in the field until the chain has been resolved, or until some other card destroys them.

That is the reason some people ask if Heavy Storm is also destroyed or Giant Trunade returned when these cards resolve their effects. Since these cards are unaffected, they don't.

Last Will works the same as Waboku. Once resolved, the card is sent to the graveyard and the effect lasts the entire turn.
 
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I see your point, but Painful Choice is just like Creature Swap.  Once it activates, it goes to the Graveyard and then both Players select the monster that will be swapped.

Painful Choice just lets you pick 5 cards from your deck and your opponent then selects the card that will remain in your hand and the rest go to the Graveyard.  The only cards that will go to the Graveyard are the 4 remaining cards from the 5 picked as Painful Choice has already been sent prior to its effect's resolution:

Select 5 cards from your Deck and show them to your opponent. Your opponent must select 1 card that will be added to your hand. Discard the remaining cards to the Graveyard.
 
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Not trying to beat a dead horse with this but 3 other cards come to mind.

1) Wicked Breaking Flamberge (I assume if discarded to activate the equip Peten would not get his effect?)

2) Blast Held By A Tribute (if destroyed along with whatever else was tributed he would not because of the "Inflict Damage" afterwards?)

3) Horn of Heaven (No again because you used him as activation cost?)
 
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Thanks for all the response!

I will talk that over again with some German judges, who are VERY interested in this discussion.

And I understood everything you <tried> to tell my helpoemer, thanks a lot for your help!
Looks like we too have something in common and have this uncommon-ideas... ^^

soul
 
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masterwoo0 said:
I see your point, but Painful Choice is just like Creature Swap.  Once it activates, it goes to the Graveyard and then both Players select the monster that will be swapped.

Painful Choice just lets you pick 5 cards from your deck and your opponent then selects the card that will remain in your hand and the rest go to the Graveyard.  The only cards that will go to the Graveyard are the 4 remaining cards from the 5 picked as Painful Choice has already been sent prior to its effect's resolution:

Select 5 cards from your Deck and show them to your opponent. Your opponent must select 1 card that will be added to your hand. Discard the remaining cards to the Graveyard.
Click to expand...

This is not correct. Cards are not sent to the Graveyard in the middle of a chain. Cards that have been played and put effects on the chain will remain on the field until the entire chain has resolved, not beforehand. With Painful Choice, you would turn Painful Choice face up on the field. We'll assume no further chain. Painful Choice resolves and you get your five cards sending four to the Graveyard and one to the hand. The chain has now finished resolving. Painful Choice goes to the Graveyard.
 
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Re: Peten the Dark Clown -> an idea which could make the current ruling useless.

Sending a used-up magic card to the graveyard at the end of a chain does not change the "last event".
Peten looks at the "last event" to see if its effect is valid (not really, but same result). Cards like Torrential Tribute and Mirror Force also look at the "last event".

Edit: Responding to this and similar posts:
I would assume that it is because Painful Choice was sent to the Graveyard as a result of a Game Mechanic that this is legal. This would also apply for Graceful Charity, etc. I can't think of instances where Peten wouldn't be legal to Special Summon when something Game Mechanic wise would prevent it.
Click to expand...
 
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