plasma versus BTH

W

woltarr

New Member
hi mates

if my destiny hero plasma is special summoned and i ask priority to absorb a oponent monster

but my oponent activate "bottomless trap hole" in response to the special summon

what will happen

1= it will form a chain and plasma wont be on the field since it is removed from the field ( BTH effct) thus it will not absorb the opponent monster

2= it will form a chain and plasma do absorb a monster but since he is removed from play the monster absorbed goes to the grave

3= both above

4= none above

PLMK

woltarr
 
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Go by what Curtis says, then. I would have agreed with Emerald, because that's the one that makes sense, but if Curtis says it's so, then he's right.

Seems that monster-absorbing effects don't depend on the monster with that effect. That goes for "Destiny Hero - Plasma", "Relinquished", "Thousand-Eyes Restrict" and "Allure Queen" (all Levels), plus any others I may have missed.

It's really quite counter-intuitive. Are there other card effects that reference themselves but which still try to resolve if the card itself is destroyed/flipped/removed from the field (i.e. the effect doesn't disappear)?
 
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That is a 180° turn from the previous Thousand Eyes Restrict/Relinquished rulings. They pounded into our heads for years that monsters that depended on being on the field to resolve their effect succesfully had to remain on the field to do so. Same thing for being flipped over. Now they've completely reversed that ruling way back in May or later and no one noticed? Am I going to have to double check every rulings question I answer from now on, just in case?
 
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To clarify this point, I wish to put my two cents on this discussion. When you summoned Plasma you would announce to use your priority (player's priority) to activate Plasma effect to absorb an opponent monster on the field. Then, your opponent responded to the summoning of Plasma by activating bottomless trap hole. Resolving:

step1: Plasma absorb opponent monster
step 2: bottomless activate destroying and removing Plasma
step 3: absorbed opponent monster goes to the graveyard. In accordance with the rules. If I messed up, please comment.
 
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polytemp said:
To clarify this point, I wish to put my two cents on this discussion. When you summoned Plasma you would announce to use your priority (player's priority) to activate Plasma effect to absorb an opponent monster on the field. Then, your opponent responded to the summoning of Plasma by activating bottomless trap hole. Resolving:

step1: Plasma absorb opponent monster
step 2: bottomless activate destroying and removing Plasma
step 3: absorbed opponent monster goes to the graveyard. In accordance with the rules. If I messed up, please comment.
Click to expand...
That's right. What we're complaining about is that Step 3 used to be "Effect disappears, monster designated for absorption is unaffected and stays on the field".

Also, month and a half. Welcome to the party.
 
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Just for clarification:

Build Chain--

Link 1: The iginition effect of Plasma is activated, targetting opp's monster (note, like most ignition effects, the monster does not need to be on the field to resolve).

Link 2: Bottomless Trap hole activates.

**Nothing else

Resolve chain backwards:

Link 2: BTH destroyed and removes Plasma.

Link 1: Plasma absorbs opp's monster (the effect does not disappear); however, the monster cannot equip because there is nothing to equip to, therefore, due to game mechanic, it (the equipping card) is destroyed adn sent toward the GY.

The "new" ruling simply came about (Allue LV1) as the clarification of how ignition effects work was made. Namely, that with few exceptions once ignition effects (similar to Normal Spells/Traps) activate, they do not need the activating card to be on the field in order to resolve (Now don't anybody bring up Zombie Master, because he is the exception, not the rule, and that has to do with bad translation). I too experienced cognitive dissonance when the Allure LV1 ruling came out, but understanding the overall catagory of ignition type effects brought it into harmony.
 
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The thing is, that isn't a clarification, that's a complete ruling reversal. Effects that were dependent on the card remaining on the field to successfully resolve ALWAYS had to be on the filed to properly resolve. An "absorption" monster was no different from spell or trap that seized control of a monster. If the card wasn't there when the effect resolved, then there was nothing to attach to, so the effect couldn't fully resolve properly. Now the effect resolves anyway, finds nothing and sends it to the Graveyard. That's not consistent with what would happen with a spell or trap card during a chain.
 
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Sorry for the miscommunication, there... I agree it is a rulings reversal; I'm just saying that the reversal came about just after the clarification on ignition effects was released. It is similar to the reversals of A-Team Trap Disposal Unit, et al. wherein they, being negators, can activate during Damage Calculation, previously not. That reversal came from a clarification of how negating monsters effects work. Konami really needs to sit down and hammer ll this out. I mean, now that I ahve all the rulings down, I can better assimilate the changes, but I remember when I was starting out. Every time one of these changes came, it would throw my whole rulings into a tizzy, trying to clearing re-memorizing it in reverse. Very frustrating!!
 
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