Question

[Duelmaster]

I've got Skill Drain Face-Up
My oppent got Royal Decree Face-Up
I summons Jinzo
I play Amplifier on Jinzo

(Jinzo negate Royal Decree, Skill Drain Negate Jinzo, Royal Decree negate Skill Drain again, Jinzo negate royal decree)

What happens than ?

 

[masterwoo0]

I've got Skill Drain Face-Up
My oppent got Royal Decree Face-Up
I summons Jinzo
I play Amplifier on Jinzo

(Jinzo negate Royal Decree, Skill Drain Negate Jinzo, Royal Decree negate Skill Drain again, Jinzo negate royal decree)

What happens than ?

Im pretty sure you cant play a card combination that cant resolve its effect at some point.

 

[xxxVIPERxxx]

I believe it goes like this.....

Skill Drain is inactive due to Royal Decree's effect.

Jinzo is summoned which would negate Royal Decree & Skill Drain. This would happen as Skill Drain was not active when Jinzo came to the field, so his effect will not be cancelled. Jinzo is just standing in as Royal Decree's effect for the time being.

Now, adding Amplifier makes it tricky, as now, your traps would become Active again. But, since Jinzo is already out, Skill Drain will not bother/deter his effect. It would be similiar to activating Skill Drain after Jinzo is already out. It has no effect, reason being this:

#14 from Skill Drain Rulings:

"Jinzo" cannot negate Trap Cards while "Skill Drain" is already active, because "Skill Drain" is negating "Jinzo"'s effect. But if "Jinzo" is already on the field, you cannot activate "Skill Drain" because "Jinzo"'s effect prevents you from doing so.

In essence Jinzo would win in your scenario and still be Active on the field. Skill Drain ends up being negated.

If I am wrong, I will stand corrected and learn something new, just like you are.

Hope this helps.

I'm out!!

 

[n00b]

I believe it goes like this.....

Skill Drain is inactive due to Royal Decree's effect.

Jinzo is summoned which would negate Royal Decree & Skill Drain. This would happen as Skill Drain was not active when Jinzo came to the field, so his effect will not be cancelled. Jinzo is just standing in as Royal Decree's effect for the time being.

Now, adding Amplifier makes it tricky, as now, your traps would become Active again. But, since Jinzo is already out, Skill Drain will not bother/deter his effect. It would be similiar to activating Skill Drain after Jinzo is already out. It has no effect, reason being this:

#14 from Skill Drain Rulings:

"Jinzo" cannot negate Trap Cards while "Skill Drain" is already active, because "Skill Drain" is negating "Jinzo"'s effect. But if "Jinzo" is already on the field, you cannot activate "Skill Drain" because "Jinzo"'s effect prevents you from doing so.

In essence Jinzo would win in your scenario and still be Active on the field. Skill Drain ends up being negated.

If I am wrong, I will stand corrected and learn something new, just like you are.

Hope this helps.

I'm out!!

But since Amplifier is out, Jinzo doesn't affect your traps, so Skill Drain would not be negated, and it would negate Jinzo's effect. Honestly, I don't know what would happen in this scenario.

 

[xxxVIPERxxx]

Jinzo is out before Skill Drain can be activated. It was standing in for Royal Decree. Once you hook the Amplifier up, it still won't bother Jinzo, I believe. He was out first. I may be wrong. Hopefully one of the big dawgs see's it soon. I'd like to see what happens. Wrong or right. I'm always willing to learn.

I'm out!

 

[n00b]

Er...problem solved. Looked up rulings for Amplifier.
"Infinite loops with "Amplifier"/"Jinzo"/"Snatch Steal"/"Imperial Order" are not possible. You cannot activate a card that would cause an infinite loop because its effect cannot resolve completely. If you activate "Imperial Order" by mistake in such a situation, flip it face-down again."

The point with Skill Drain and Jinzo is that Skill Drain negates the effect of all face-up effect monsters on the field while it's face-up on the field, so if it's not negated (Amplifier), it would negate Jinzo's effect, but that's kinda irrelevant now, since you wouldn't be allowed to play Amplifier (in this specific situation anyway).

 

[masterwoo0]

First Player:  Skill Drain was activated (Continuous Effect)

Second Player:  Royal Decree activated and negates Skill Drain (Continuous Effect)

First Player:  Tribute Summons Jinzo, Equips Amplifier.  Jinzo negates Second Player's "Royal Decree".  First Player's Skill Drain is activated, negating Jinzo's effect because it was active prior to the summon of Jinzo.

Second Player:  Royal Decree is activated, negating Skill Drain.  Jinzo negates Royal Decree.....


That's what would happen.  An endless loop with no positive effect on gameplay.  If it werent for it being disallowed, it would be ruled as stalling.

 

[helpoemer316]

Whatever the last card in the infinite loop chain is it can not be activated.

For instance:

Player A: Activates Royal Decree.

Player B: Has Skill Drain Face-up, Skill Drain is now negated by Royal Decree. Then player B chooses to summon Jinzo, negating Royal Decree, and now negating Skill Drain, since Skilll Drain's effect was negated when Jinzo was summoned, Jinzo is not negated by Skill Drain. Player B then wishes to activate Amplifier, this is an illegal move, Amplifier can not be activated because it will cause an infinite loop, so the card can not be activated.

Here's another similar scenerio.

Player A: Has Royal Decree face-up on the field.

Player B: Summons Jinzo and then plays Amplifier on Jinzo. Player B then wishes to activate his face-down card, which is Skill Drain. Skill Drain can not be activated because it would cause an infinite loop where no card can resolve, so as long as the preceeding cards are in play, Player B's Skill Drain can not be activated.

Same thing goes for Jinzo + Amplifier + Imperial Order, the owner of Jinzo and IO, can not activate whichever was the last card played in the infinite loop as it would resolve without completion, so final card in the sequence of activating can not be activated.

I hope that helps some...

 

[xxxVIPERxxx]

Cool, that last one was a scenario Shai had brought up at Worlds and we all was having a fit trying to decide what would be proper. Now I know, that the last card can't be activated. Thanx helpoemer....


I'm out!!

 

[Maester Bacman]

The problem was one infinite loop between Jinzo, Amplifier and Imperial Order.

Konami decided to add errata to Amplifier, which was brought corrected to America.

This loop was now impossible. But other ones appeared, argh:

- A: Jinzo with Amplifier.
- B: Snatch Steal on player A's Jinzo.
- B: Player A tries to use Pot of Greed and player B answers with Imperial Order.

There are also possible infinite loops with Sealmaster Meisei, but, fortunately, those are a bit more difficult.

I am glad to know now about this ruling of infinite loops, because our ruling was pretty "casual":

- "ARGH! I'm sick of this loop. It is Jinzo's fault. I rule that this infinite loop gained such speed that Jinzo exploded and both players take 2400 points of damage. [Everyone: JAJAJAJAJAJA  :lol: ]"

Fortunately, I never had to apply that crazy ruling. Now I have something pretty legal to answer to my friends if the situation gets to appear.