Questions From Mars

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woltarr

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SCENARIO

i have 8000

opponent has 4000

i have the agent of force - MARS plus The Sanctuary in the Sky on the field

so mars have 4000 atck points

questions

1- if i tribute mars for the efct of "mystik wok" i will gain
a= 4000 points
b= zero points
c=none of above

2- if my opponent activates "shrink" on MARS
what will happen
a= he remains with 4000 because it is a contnious effct
b= he reduces his atck to 2000
c=none of above

3- if i special sumon MARS with celestial transformation what will happen
a= he remains with 4000 because it is a contnious effct
b= he reduces his atck to 2000
c=he reduces his atck to 2000 then go up to 4000 because it is a contnious effct
d=he reduces his atck to zero then go up to 4000 because it is a continuous effct
e=none of above


thanks


woltarr
 
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1. a. 4000 points, The ATK or DEF is the current number, not the original number. You select ATK or DEF when "Mystik Wok" is activated.

2. a. He will remain at 4000 but not because it is a continuous effect, rather because Shrink effects Original ATK and Mars has a 0 Original ATK, he only boosts his ATK strength not his Original ATK.

3. b. 2000 ATK.
 
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1. a. 4000 ATK. anthonj is correct!

2. REMEMBER! "The Agent of Force - Mars" is unaffected by any Spell cards. Even though none of us has one, "Shrink" is a Quick-Play Spell card. The ATK remains unchanged at 4000.

3. ATK will be 4000.

Question 3 is the most tricky. On one hand we can try to say "The Agent of Force - Mars" is unaffected by any Spell cards, but the usual rule is one card effect cannot interrupt the resolution of a currect card effect. That's why "Jinzo" can't interrupt the effect of "Ceasefire" when flipped face-up or the full effect of "Rope of Life". So, it is legal for "Celestial Transformation" to special summon TAoF-M. However, there is a ruling on "Acid Trap Hole" that allow cards that will change DEF to do so before the resolution of "Acid Trap Hole". If we follow this ruling, do we allow TAoF-M to have 4000 ATK and then let it get halved?

I don't know the exact answer. I would rule that because "Celestial Transformation" does not have an effect determined by criteria, that it is allowed to fully resolve before "The Agent of Force - Mars" is allowed to determine its ATK/DEF. So half of zero is zero, then TAoF-M's effect kicks in to go to 4000 ATK.

One could argue that TAoF-M's ATK increase should be allowed before "Celestial Transformation" halves it, but really if you allow that, then TAoF-M's first effect should be in place and that means it is unaffected by Spell cards!

doc
 
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ygo doc said:
1. a. 4000 ATK. anthonj is correct!

2. REMEMBER! "The Agent of Force - Mars" is unaffected by any Spell cards. Even though none of us has one, "Shrink" is a Quick-Play Spell card. The ATK remains unchanged at 4000.

3. ATK will be 4000.

Question 3 is the most tricky. On one hand we can try to say "The Agent of Force - Mars" is unaffected by any Spell cards, but the usual rule is one card effect cannot interrupt the resolution of a currect card effect. That's why "Jinzo" can't interrupt the effect of "Ceasefire" when flipped face-up or the full effect of "Rope of Life". So, it is legal for "Celestial Transformation" to special summon TAoF-M. However, there is a ruling on "Acid Trap Hole" that allow cards that will change DEF to do so before the resolution of "Acid Trap Hole". If we follow this ruling, do we allow TAoF-M to have 4000 ATK and then let it get halved?

I don't know the exact answer. I would rule that because "Celestial Transformation" does not have an effect determined by criteria, that it is allowed to fully resolve before "The Agent of Force - Mars" is allowed to determine its ATK/DEF. So half of zero is zero, then TAoF-M's effect kicks in to go to 4000 ATK.

One could argue that TAoF-M's ATK increase should be allowed before "Celestial Transformation" halves it, but really if you allow that, then TAoF-M's first effect should be in place and that means it is unaffected by Spell cards!

doc
Click to expand...

I agree that you have to allow the resolution of the summoning of Agent of Mars BEFORE you can increase his ATK but sometimes that's not the thinking. Case in mind- Call of the Haunted special summons Command Knight. Now Command Knight's ATK is 1200 BEFORE summoning. Player chains Inferno Reckless Summon to try to summon two more Command Knights. Can it be done? NO! Because Command Knight's ATK is 1600 when it hits the field, thus not allowing you to use IRS to special summon two more monsters.
Same thinking will probably apply here as Agent's ATK is 4000 as soon as it hits the field, thus allowing the ATK to be halved as stated by Celestial's text.
By the way, I don't agree with the ruling on Command Knight as the ATK is 1200 when you go to summon it.
 
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HorusMaster said:
I agree that you have to allow the resolution of the summoning of Agent of Mars BEFORE you can increase his ATK but sometimes that's not the thinking. Case in mind- Call of the Haunted special summons Command Knight. Now Command Knight's ATK is 1200 BEFORE summoning. Player chains Inferno Reckless Summon to try to summon two more Command Knights. Can it be done? NO! Because Command Knight's ATK is 1600 when it hits the field, thus not allowing you to use IRS to special summon two more monsters.
Same thinking will probably apply here as Agent's ATK is 4000 as soon as it hits the field, thus allowing the ATK to be halved as stated by Celestial's text.
By the way, I don't agree with the ruling on Command Knight as the ATK is 1200 when you go to summon it.
Click to expand...
Well, no, because Call of the Haunted resolves before you attempt to activate Inferno Reckless Summon. Between Call resolving and IRS activating, Command Knight's effect becomes active, thus raising its ATK. And you can't chain IRS to Call, because at that point no monster has been Special Summoned so the activation for IRS is illegal.



I say that Celestial Tranformation tries to halve the ATK of the monster during its resolution, but at that point the ATK is 0, so its new ATK is also 0. Then after resolution, The Agent of Force - Mars' effect kicks in and increases its ATK to 4000.

Mars' effect is a continuous effect, so it's constantly setting its ATK value according to the current situation. Celestial Transformation looks like it only halves the ATK during resolution, instead of placing a "halve current ATK" restriction upon the monster in question. In that case, the above paragraph is true.
 
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hummmmmm

i personly agree that "celestial transformation" reduces the atck of mars BEFORE the effct of mars kicks in therefore it will have 4000

i also have a new question

2- if my opponent activates "mirror wall " on MARS
what will happen
a= he remains with 4000 because it is a contnious effct
b= he reduces his atck to 2000
c= he reduces his atck to 2000 them mars effct kicks in once more and raise it again to 4000
d=none of above


thanks


woltarr
 
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I couldn't answer that question with any certainty, but I'd guess at answer b. Don't quote me on that, though. After thinking it all through that kinda seem the most logical, although we are talking about Yu-Gi-Oh! here, and there are still inconsistencies in my thinkings. I wouldn't be surprised if any of the answers turns out to be correct.
 
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