Raiza vs Spirit Reaper

[Dr Sin]

I know it's kind of a not so brilliant question, but if Raiza the Storm Monarch effect targets a face-up Spirit Reaper, SR is returned to the top of it's owner deck or is destroyed by it's own effect?

Thanks in advance.

 

[slither]

It is sent to the top of the owner's deck. Reaper must remain face-up on the field by the time the effect that targets him resolves in order to get destroyed.

 

[Dr Sin]

Thanks for the reply. But there is a problem now: oficially, I don't understand SR effect anymore...
Isn't SR face-up on the field when Raiza's effect try to resolve? Then, as Raiza's effect target, SR would be destroyed...
Or, then the condition to SR destroy itself by its own effect is that he has to be face-up on the field before the complete resolution of the effect... Because I can not see how SR cannot be considered still a face-up monster at the resolution of Raiza effect...
Wow, I'm just confused.

Can someone help me to understand it? Sorry if I'm bothering.

 

[EmeraldDragon]

SR needs to be face up at the reolution of the effect as in when its finished resolving. When you play book of moon against SR BoM attempts to resolve and by doing so flips SR face down. When it comes time for SR to use his effect he cant because by the time BoM is finished resolving he is no longer face up. Same thing with Raiza.

 

[cuzwbd]

wouldnt this be an example of SEGOC ??

turn player's manditory effect goes first on chain
non tp mandatory effect second
tp optional effect next
non tp optional effect after

or are they not really simultaneous?
i guess no...
the book example spirit reaper's mandatory/continuous effect goes on chain 1st then book of moon 2nd, so when resolving backwards reaper is fd and his continuous effect dissappears....i think...

so would reaper's effect jump on chain when raiza targets him? before tp/raiza's?

for whatever reason i cant get my foggy head around this one ....c'mon coffee... kick in... :redface

 

[EmeraldDragon]

try this way cuz. His continuous effect kicks in upon resolution of the targetting effect if he is still face up on the field. in the case of bom and raiza he is no longer face up when they finish resolving so his effect cannot come into play.

 

[Dr Sin]

As I understood it now, SR self-destruction effect resolves outside of the chain (and this is really confusing me), because I believe his effect doesn't starts a new chain.
So, after the entire resolution of the chain, if SR is still face-up on the field, it is destroyed. Probably I'm overthinking about it, but this mean that SR goes to the other side of the field when Brain Control is activated targeting it, and this is kind of weird.

 

[cuzwbd]

sigh - yup - thanks - i hadnt looked at the rulings for 'reaper in forever...i had forgotten that the wording on the card..."destroy this card when it is targeted by the effect of a spell, trap, or effect monster." did not really match the ruling....i have a tendancy to take text a bit too litterally...it would be nice if it said " after resolving the effect of a spell, trap, or monster that targets this card , destroy this card".... i tend to want to activate / put on chain @ "when it's targeted..."

 

[CPMillerWV]

As I understood it now, SR self-destruction effect resolves outside of the chain (and this is really confusing me), because I believe his effect doesn't starts a new chain.
So, after the entire resolution of the chain, if SR is still face-up on the field, it is destroyed. Probably I'm overthinking about it, but this mean that SR goes to the other side of the field when Brain Control is activated targeting it, and this is kind of weird.

It does start a new chain because it's a TRIGGERED effect. When SR is targeted, that effect has to resolve before SR is 'concidered' targeted and IT"S effect would start a new chain (you would be resolving a chain so it would have to start a new chain). When it's destruction effect tries to resoulve, SR is not on the field to be found!
This way, you have a chance to negate the effect. Spell Shield type 8 would negate Brain Control and SR WOULD still be alive because it dosent resolve and activate it's self destruction effect.

Hope this helps clarify it some.

 

[densetsu_x]

It does start a new chain because it's a TRIGGERED effect. When SR is targeted, that effect has to resolve before SR is 'concidered' targeted and IT"S effect would start a new chain (you would be resolving a chain so it would have to start a new chain). When it's destruction effect tries to resoulve, SR is not on the field to be found!
This way, you have a chance to negate the effect. Spell Shield type 8 would negate Brain Control and SR WOULD still be alive because it dosent resolve and activate it's self destruction effect.

Hope this helps clarify it some.

Um, no.

Spirit Reaper's self-destuction is a Continuous Effect. It will occur between links of a chain. However, whichever effect is targeting it must activate and resolve first.

So if I play Heavy Storm, and my opponent chains Enemy Controller targeting my Spirit Reaper.

Heavy Storm -> Enemy Controller.
Enemy Controller resolves, changing the position of Spirit Reaper first (yes, the position will change).
Spirit Reaper will then be destroyed by its own effect.
Heavy Storm will now destroy all S/T cards on the field.

Honestly, the entire mechanics behind Spirit Reaper are pretty well detailed in the Official FAQ.