Rule on priority

[Schwarz]

A couple of questions since some people just don't understand and i need answers from an official source.

First, i need to know if this is right, i read it in a site (not the official one) and i agree with what it says...anyway, here it is:

"Well because summons, draws, attacks, phase/step changes, discards, etc. do not have speeds. You cannot actually chain to something which has no speed, thus you cannot chain to a summon, draw, chain, attack, phase/step change, discard, etc..

The good thing about responding, however, is that you can basically respond to almost anything. You can respond to a summon, a change in phase/step, the end of a chain, a card being sent to the Graveyard, drawing a card, etc. Basically, if you can do it or declare it, you can respond to it. Keep in mind, however, that when you respond, it has already taken place, so when you are responding to a phase change from Main Phase 1 to Battle Phase, your response is taking place in the Battle Phase, not Main Phase 1. "

So, what this means is that even if its not your turn, u can activate traps or quick-play magic cards (provided they were set before) anytime, right? u don't need to wait for the turn player to do something? For example, in my opponents draw phase, i can activate "Call of the Haunted" to bring one of my monsters from the graveyard to the field even if my opponent didn't do anything?

Or...lets put it this way...if my opponent draws a cards, and decides to pass the turn, i have the chance to do something in any of his phases, right? like activating a trap before he ends his turn 'cause he has to pass priority sooner or later in his turn?

Well, that's it
Thanks.

 

[Manta]

This is the essence of priority, yes you can respond to drawing and phase changes and such, but only if the turn player announces that they don't wish to respond to these actions. "Priority" means that the turn player always gets the choice of being step 1 of any chain conducted in that turn.

 

[Digital Jedi]

It's true that in most casual duels most players are not going to ask if the turn player is planning on activating anything in his Draw Phase, Standby Phase, etc. But as a matter of course, it they should. Since I run Thunder of Ruler, and can only activate at their Standby Phase, I usually wait till they draw and then say "At your Standby Phase . . ." with my hand on my Trap Card and then I pause until they give me the go ahead. In tournament you might want to be more succinct, but it's a good rule of thumb for everyday play.

 

[masterwoo0]

It's true that in most casual duels most players are not going to ask if the turn player is planning on activating anything in his Draw Phase, Standby Phase, etc. But as a matter of course, it they should. Since I run Thunder of Ruler, and can only activate at their Standby Phase, I usually wait till they draw and then say "At your Standby Phase . . ." with my hand on my Trap Card and then I pause until they give me the go ahead. In tournament you might want to be more succinct, but it's a good rule of thumb for everyday play.

Your kind of giving away the element of suprise and a tactical advantage targeting one of your traps for activation by doing that though.

I would simply state that when they transition from the Draw Phase, "Do you have any effects you would like to activate or resolve in your Standby Phase?" If not, then I would say, "During your Standby Phase, I activate Thunder of Ruler." Even though MST cannot negate the effect of Thunder of Ruler, if your opponent has the foreknowledge of knowing you are going to activate a "specific" card during Standby, he may very well target any other cards you may have on the field, fully knowing that you are going to activate the one you have your hand on.

 

[krazykidpsx]

yea priority is basically turn play can use spell speed 1 and 2 effect before the opponent.

the opponent basically only responds to actions taken.

as the turn player you shoudl state your phases, yes its annoying but its something you should do.

 

[Schwarz]

so basically, i could just say, for example, at my opponent's draw or stand by phase, that i activate...lets use the same example...call of the haunted targeting one of my monsters...i don't have to say that i'm responding to the phase change since i have the right to activate something in his turn (if he decided not to do anything at that moment), right?

 

[Maester Bacman]

From what I know, I can't activate Quick plays/Traps in my opponent's turn whenever I think it could be right until the opponent makes an action. The opponent should do something (like declaring a change of phase) or, a chain should end completely in order lo let you activate a card.

 

[Digital Jedi]

From what I know, I can't activate Quick plays/Traps in my opponent's turn whenever I think it could be right until the opponent makes an action. The opponent should do something (like declaring a change of phase) or, a chain should end completely in order lo let you activate a card.

No that is incorrect. Your opponent simply has priority to activate something at each Phase. But if you ask if him if he is going to activate anything in whatever Phase your in and he passes, then you have an opportuninty to activate something, which he can then chain to if he so desires. Remember, you don't enter a Phase until both players agree the current Phase is over.

 

[Digital Jedi]

Your kind of giving away the element of suprise and a tactical advantage targeting one of your traps for activation by doing that though.

I would simply state that when they transition from the Draw Phase, "Do you have any effects you would like to activate or resolve in your Standby Phase?" If not, then I would say, "During your Standby Phase, I activate Thunder of Ruler." Even though MST cannot negate the effect of Thunder of Ruler, if your opponent has the foreknowledge of knowing you are going to activate a "specific" card during Standby, he may very well target any other cards you may have on the field, fully knowing that you are going to activate the one you have your hand on.

On my opponent's turn? What exactly am I giving away? The only thing I'm going to be able to activate in my opponent's Standby Phase is a Trap/Quick-Play Spell Card, so no big secret there.

And where exactly does it say I have to activate the card I have my hand on? I can touch any of the cards in my Spell/Trap Zone anytime I want, that doesn't automatically make my other Traps unchainable. And in any case, if I say "Are you doing anything?" and then touch my card after he passes what's going to stop him from doing exactly the same thing you suggested. I've got to touch the card to flip it.

 

[krazykidpsx]

well you just have to respond to an action you cant respond to nothing.

like your opponent has to take an action in order for them to let you start a chain or chain to your spell/trap.

its a have priority to start on the turn player sort of deal.

I draw.

you respond with MSt targetting my facedown.

thats perfectly find.

i chain to mst etc.. etc..

now if i dont do anything you cant just say, Oh i will be playing this. or that.

and then you cant respond to me tributing a monster since its a continuing action.

tribute then summon.

only card that can respond to such thing is Solem Judgement and Horn of Heaven

 

[Digital Jedi]

If that were true then how exactly could I play Thunder of Ruler in thier Standby Phase if I have to wait for my opponent to do something? That's just not the case. My opponent has priority to do something. But if he passes on that priority then I can activate anything I wish as long as it's appropriatly timed.

 

[Digital Jedi]

Also I hope your not suggesting that the only cards that can respond to a Tribute Summon is Horn of Heaven or Solemn Judgment, because thats just untrue. And niether one of these cards respond to the act of tributing a monster but the act of summoning. Tribute or no Tribute.

 

[John Danker]

well you just have to respond to an action you cant respond to nothing.

like your opponent has to take an action in order for them to let you start a chain or chain to your spell/trap.

its a have priority to start on the turn player sort of deal.

I draw.

you respond with MSt targetting my facedown.

thats perfectly find.

No, it's not perfectly fine. In any given phase turn player has the right to begin a chain. If after the draw you would say, "Is there anything you wish to activate in your draw phase?" and your opponent declined, THEN you may begin a chain.

 

[Maester Bacman]

No that is incorrect. Your opponent simply has priority to activate something at each Phase. But if you ask if him if he is going to activate anything in whatever Phase your in and he passes, then you have an opportuninty to activate something, which he can then chain to if he so desires. Remember, you don't enter a Phase until both players agree the current Phase is over.

Of course, I consider the action of "passing" or "declining to do something" as something that could allow the other player to activate a card. Your example with Thunder of Ruler is right.

My point is that, for example, you are in your Main Phase 1 and you have two previously set monsters. You peek at them to remember who is who. Suddenly, your opponent thinks that those are Flip Effect Monsters that you are going to flip. The opponent gets paranoic and activates his Ceasefire to prevent you from flipping them and get their Flip effects. This activation shouldn't be valid, beacuse the turn player hasn't even resolved if he will do something or not in his Main Phase. That is what I meant.

 

[krazykidpsx]

that happens alot.

and drawing is consider an action, pausing for time isnt considered to be anything.

and yea i did mean it as the only cards that respond to the action.

ie: you tribute, they use. your monster doesnt even make out to the field.

True or not true? if not True then how do you negate the summon of Jinzo?

i dont belive the opponent should be allowed to see what monster is comming out if they will be playing cards like thouse because thats cheeting, the action got taken resolved and they didnt do a single thing to stop it.

But nooo!!!! they say, " you went to fast, and didnt let me.. etc.. etc.."

so yes i am implying that thouse cards you use in responce to the opponent doing something since its not even a spell speed, but your using a spell speed 3 against it.

everybody should have a, "will you like to use its effect, would you be doing this, will you be doing that, etc.. etc.."

If you arnt then you might take a gander at VS System and see how Innitiative works since its basically the same thing only innitiative in Vs system is a bit 1 sided.

as in the turn player with innitiative activates everything they want then till they are ready pass on to you, then it goes into multilple stuff that goes on back and forth.

 

[Digital Jedi]

The Vs. Sysytem stands out from YGO in that very little is unchainable. You chain to attacks, to the bringing out of a character (recruitment) and other actions that aren't necesarily effects. Makes for smoother gameplay.

But Solemn Judgment and Horn of Heaven do not respond to the act of tributing. They respond to the summon. And the reason Jinzo doesn't negate them is because the Summon is never considered to have taken place. Physicaly, you have a card named Jinzo on the field, effect wise the game rewound the summon and destroyed Jinszo before it ever hit the field. You may not belive it should be allowed, but how would you be able to negate the summon of a none tributed monster without seeing it first? It dosn't create a special case for Tributed monsters.

 

[krazykidpsx]

because there are 2 actions when you tribute.

first you send the monster on the field to the graveyard or monsters if its 7 or higher.

then you summon the appropriete level monster.

The Declaration is, I sacrafice said monster to summon said monster.

okay i would respond with Horn of Heaven to negate the summon.

so you did a sacrifice in vain.

but people tend to wait to have a monster dead on the field to see if they will try and negate the summon or not.

ive seen it happen time and time and again.

i would summon mobious, and they will lag so as i cant use the effect imediatly, then call over another judge just to tell me that because i didnt call what i was going to destroy i cant get the effect.

Its wrong because if they would have activated Solem or Horn i wouldnt have been allowed since the monster wasnt successfully summoned.

same with my Jinzo, mystic swordsman lv 6, DMOC etc.. even Fusiler Dragon.

they will star for ever and a day and then all late say they will negate else just look at me and go okay. after they spend like 5 minutes thinking on what they were going to.

by this time im long gone from what i did.

 

[Digital Jedi]

because there are 2 actions when you tribute.

first you send the monster on the field to the graveyard or monsters if its 7 or higher.

then you summon the appropriete level monster.

The Declaration is, I sacrafice said monster to summon said monster.

okay i would respond with Horn of Heaven to negate the summon.

so you did a sacrifice in vain.

but people tend to wait to have a monster dead on the field to see if they will try and negate the summon or not.

ive seen it happen time and time and again.

i would summon mobious, and they will lag so as i cant use the effect imediatly, then call over another judge just to tell me that because i didnt call what i was going to destroy i cant get the effect.

Its wrong because if they would have activated Solem or Horn i wouldnt have been allowed since the monster wasnt successfully summoned.

same with my Jinzo, mystic swordsman lv 6, DMOC etc.. even Fusiler Dragon.

they will star for ever and a day and then all late say they will negate else just look at me and go okay. after they spend like 5 minutes thinking on what they were going to.

by this time im long gone from what i did.

I'm sorry. man, but your creating a special situation for Tributed monsters that can't be applied to non-tributed monsters. If I get to see the non-tribute monster then I get to see the tribute monster. It's the whole point of the two traps. To destroy something you don't want out there. That's why thier costs are both so expensive.

And your opponent has the right to decide whether or not he's going to use Horn of Heaven or not. You Summon a monster, your opponent now has the chance to negate it. But you should really call the effect of Mobius when you first summon him, whether he's going to get negated or not.

The problem here is that you seem to be misunderstanding the definition of the word "negate." Negate means to counteract, to nuliffy. You can't counteract an event that hasnt happened yet. You offer a monster as Tribute, but I must wait for the actual summon to occur before I can counteract it. Before I can negate it. "Tribute 1 monster on your side of the field to negate the Normal Summon ..." "Negate an activation of a ... Normal Summon / Flip Summon / Special Summon ..." Negate the summon, not the cost for the summon.

I know you dont like it, but the simple fact of the matter is that the act of Tributing CANNOT be responded to with Horn of Heaven or Solemn Judgement because both cards must wait for an actual summon to occur before they can negate them.
The important thing to remember is that even though the summon takes place Horn of Heaven and Solemn Judgment "undo" the event of Summoning. They don't stop the Summon from ever taking place, they undo the Summon and get around Jinzo for that simple reason.

 

[krazykidpsx]

I cannot active Mobious effect since their using a Spell speed 3 card emediatly.

i have to wait and see what happens. though its giving up my priority since the monster isnt normal summoned successfully i cannot use his effect.

thats why i first summon, then see whats going to happen. the only options i can give to my opponent is, Are you going to negate the summon yes or no?

once they say no, i can move onto using the effect.

but your completly forgetting what conditions i need to apply.

what is a tribute summon?

the action of you sacrificing 1 or more monsters from the field to summon a higher level monster from your hand aslong as it doesnt have restriction on how to summon it.

as soon as i see the monster being sent to the graveyard that only means 1 thing.

a tribute summon is about to occur.

you cant just tribute monsters at the idiot and say oh i just wanted to send them off because i didnt have enough space. etc.. etc..

pay close attention at every move that you do, you will notice there is more than 1 action taken.

look at Lava Golem. OViously you must tell your opponent that you will be sacing 2 of their monsters for a special summon. if you dont, then anybody can just start sacing monster on their opponent side of the field and be like, oh sorry i wasnt going to summon just tribute.

do half the action not the full action.

 

[skey23]

I cannot active Mobious effect since their using a Spell speed 3 card emediatly.

Why not? This is the whole 'Priority' issue. When you successfuly tribute "Mobius", YOU, as the turn player, have the right to activate his effect and declare the 2 cards you wish to destroy BEFRORE your opponent can chain with "Solemn" or "Horn" or "Bottomless" or whatever.

This is what Digital Jedi is trying to explain. You can't 'break' into the middle of an action with the effect of a card. The 'action' of tributing a monster must come to complete resolution BEFORE any other effects can be activated. So you're example of sacrificing a monster, then waiting for a response is completely invalid as they CAN'T respond with ANYTHING at that point anyway because you've started the 'action' of Tribute Summoning a monster. They HAVE to wait until the Tribute Summon is completed, then they can respond with the Appropriate effect, BUT YOU have PRIORITY to activate either the effect of "Mobius" (in this case) or pass on that effect and let your opponent "Solemn" or "Horn" or whatever.