ryu senshi and damage step

W

woltarr

New Member
dentetsu X says in his FAQ

2) What cards can be activated during the Damage Step of the Battle Phase?

c) Multi-Trigger Effects that can negate a Spell or Trap card. This includes cards like "Dark Paladin", "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8", "Sorcerer of Dark Chaos", and "Ryu Senshi".


however ryu senhi text says

Ryu Senshi
Attrib: Earth
Type: Warrior/Fusion/Effect
Level:6
Atk: 2000
Def: 1200
"Warrior Dai Grepher" + "Spirit Ryu" A Fusion Summon of this monster can only be conducted with the above Fusion Material Monsters. As long as this card remains face-up on the field, negate the effect of a Normal Trap Card by paying 1000 Life Points. Negate the effects of a Spell Card that targets this card and destroy it.

he says "negate the effct " and not "negate the activation "

while cards like horus 8 says

Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8
Attrib: Fire
Type: Dragon/Effect
Level:8
Atk: 3000
Def: 1800
This card cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. This card cannot be Special Summoned except by the effect of "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6". As long as this card remains face-up on your side of the field, you can negate the activation and effect of any Spell Cards and destroy them.


so it seems to be diferent

also in the damage step chat of kevin tewart he mentioned horus 8 BUT not ryu senshi

so my question is

"negate the effct is enough to allow ryu senshi multi trigguer efct be activated in the damage step?"

woltarr
 
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When have you ever been able to activate a Normal Trap Card in the Damage Step that didnt affect attack or defense?

In the case of Counter Traps, we already know he cant negate those.

But he could easily negate Rising Energy.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
When have you ever been able to activate a Normal Trap Card in the Damage Step that didnt affect attack or defense?

In the case of Counter Traps, we already know he cant negate those.

But he could easily negate Blast with Chain's or Rising Energy.
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errr dude it is not what i asked

i want to know the diference between "negate the effct " and "negate the activation " and if there is indeed a diference if it will exclude Ryu Senshi efct from being activated INSIDE the damage step

woltarr
 
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Does Royal Decree negate the activation of a Trap Card? No. It negates the effect. So why would you not be able to activate Ryu Senshi's effect in the Damage Step?

woltarr said:
errr dude it is not what i asked
woltarr
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You missed my point entirely. If the only Traps you can activate in the Damage Step ARE Traps that affect attack or defense (and I dont know any Spell Speed 3 cards that do that), and you already know that Counter Traps are Spell Speed 3, and Ryu Senshi is only a Spell Speed 2 effect, what does that leave??
 
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If you can use Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8 to negate the activation of a spell card, and his effect will only be Spell Speed 2, what is the difference between negating the activation and negating the effect?

Once Ryu Senshi resolves, the effect of the Normal Trap Card will be negated and sent to the Graveyard. So it will still resolve without effect, whereas Horus would just negate it and destroy it before it gets a chance to resolve.
 
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Im looking... But I dont seem to be able to find that magic word "only".

I'm sure that it could be implied, but we all know about assuming, so I dont see where that was anything more than an example.
 
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1) Since when could you activate Royal Decree during the Damage Step? You can't.
2) You also can't activate Skill Drain during the Damage Step to attempt to negate Injection Fairy Lily.
3) The wording could just be off due to translation problems. So it should be posted to the Judge's List to get some kind of confirmation but if it truly only negates the effect instead of the activation then it would be inelligible to be activated during the Damage Step.
 
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anthonyj said:
Thanks for the reminder Daguy. With that firmly in place I would have to say you can not use Ryu Senshi during the Damage Step as it is not negating the activation of the trap, only the effect.
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dentetsu X says it can in his FAQ pinned in this very same forun :S

woltarr
 
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woltarr said:
dentetsu X says it can in his FAQ pinned in this very same forun :S

woltarr
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As you can see, there are differing viewpoints, all of which you dont accept. Just because it says it can, doesnt mean it's right, as witnessed by the now famous "Strike Ninja" recall.

So, I guess this calls for a higher point of view.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
As you can see, there are differing viewpoints, all of which you dont accept. Just because it says it can, doesnt mean it's right, as witnessed by the now famous "Strike Ninja" recall.

So, I guess this calls for a higher point of view.
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personly i want that dentetsu version is correct BUT i must be sure

woltarr
 
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We all want an effect that works "for" us to be right, and when it works against us, to be wrong.

But isnt that how it always works out? 9 times out of 10, you are going to pull off an effect that doesnt feel right, but seems to work out well the way you use it, until your opponent decides "enough is enough".

Like, using Infernalqueen Archfiend, before it was changed, and even afterwards. If people dont know, it hasnt changed, right??

So just keep on boosting up your archfiends to ungodly stats, and overwhelm your opponent... They'll never know!

Anyway, as long as there is a question on a card that you particularly want to be correct, but there doesnt quite seem to be a solid answer, all you have to do is think how you would feel if it were used "against you".
 
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I think densetsu may have erred in tha instance on the FAQ. At the time it was commonly belived that an Effect Monster who had a Multi-Trigger effect that involved the negation of an effect automatically made it a Spell Speed 3 effect. I'm not sure where that train of thought came from, but there are currently no Monster Effects that are Spell Speed 3.

For the moment the argument cannot be made that "a Normal Trap Card cannot be activated during the Damage Step" since there are plenty of exceptions to that rule to make that situation come up. Nutrient Z, Chthonian Blast and others that I cannot think of at the moment. All can be activated during the Damage Step and be pontential targets for Ryu Senshi'd effect. I'm under the impression that it can't simply beccause it lacks the formating of an effect that can be. It lacks the use of the words "Damage Step".

In addition, Ryu must be activated in direct response to the effect he is negating and cannot negate the resolution of a card.
http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=2469#2469
Hmm... can I just clarify something? I had a previous ruling that went a
little further, so I want to make sure I understand. In the first situation
below nothing stops Waboku from being activated, but Ryu Senshi's text says
that it can "negate the effect of a trap card" rather than the activation of
a trap card. So, when it does hit the field, couldn't it's effect be used
to negate Waboku's effect, after Waboku has already been activated?



Answer:

No.

"Ryu Senshi's" effect must be activated in response to the activation of
the Normal Trap Card it will attempt to negate.

"Waboku" has already resolved, so that won't happen.

---------------------------------------
Curtis Schultz
Official UDE Netrep
CurtisSchultz_Netrep@Hotmail.com
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Multi-Trigger Effects have never been higher than Spell Speed 2. Perhaps the reason why Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8 and Sorcerer of Dark Magic work in the Damage Step is because they can negate the activation of a Spell or Trap Card.

Cards like Nutrient Z and Chthonian Blast have completely different text which states when they're 'suppose' to activate legally.

Keep in mind that Sorcerer of Dark Magic and the Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8 were released after Ryu Senshi was released. There for one could assume based off Curtis's ruling and understanding of the situation that Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8 and Sorcerer of Dark Magic have card text that are merely a reworded form of the same kind of effect as Ryu Senshi.

That's how I see it based off Curtis's answer. Ryu Senshi is woreded similar to how Imperial Order and Royal Decree are worded.

The again, from the info on the official website it says under the Basic Gameplay FAQ section about the Battle Phase. Only spell/trap cards that specifically modify attack or defense of a monster or that are Counter Trap cards can be activated during the Damage Step.

There's only one Multi-Trigger Effect that I can even think of that specifically modifies attack or defense in the Damage Step - which is Injection Fairy Lily.

Boy, I hate Mondays..-_-

<stomach growls and the computer looks like a big juicy steak>
 
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