Sakuretsu armor
- Thread starter GoPDemon
- Start date
krazykidpsx
New Member
their right in a way. Sakuretsu armor doesnt Negate or stop the attack persay. BUT the monster is destroyed before getting into damage calculations hence why the monster never deals any damage.
NOw, if its Mystic Swordsman or Sasuke Samurai Vs. a Face down Monsters, Vs. Sakuretsu armor.
Then what happens is that Sasukke or MS Destroy the Facedown since Sakuretsu doesnt negate their attack.
see in order to stop the effect of Sasuke or MS is to make the facedown mosnter go face up and using Sakuretsu armor.
Preaty much a chain of Sakuretsu> Desert Sunlight will save your monster and Kill off their Facedown killer.
its good to know what cards negate and what cards dont negate casue even if your opponent plays waboku, it doesnt mean the monster wont get destroyed.
goes the same with Widespread Ruin and Even mirror force.
NOw, if its Mystic Swordsman or Sasuke Samurai Vs. a Face down Monsters, Vs. Sakuretsu armor.
Then what happens is that Sasukke or MS Destroy the Facedown since Sakuretsu doesnt negate their attack.
see in order to stop the effect of Sasuke or MS is to make the facedown mosnter go face up and using Sakuretsu armor.
Preaty much a chain of Sakuretsu> Desert Sunlight will save your monster and Kill off their Facedown killer.
its good to know what cards negate and what cards dont negate casue even if your opponent plays waboku, it doesnt mean the monster wont get destroyed.
goes the same with Widespread Ruin and Even mirror force.
masterwoo0
NINJA4LIFE
krazykidpsx said:
Thats not how it is. Mystic Swordsman, Sasuke Samurai (including Ninja Grandmaster), and D. D. Warrior Lady do not get their effect if they are destroyed by Sakuretsu Armor. All their attacks must progress past the Battle Step in order for their effects to kick in. If a monster is no longer on the field to move the attack to the Damage Step, how can a Mystic Swordsman LV2/4/6 activate their effect from the Graveyard??
masterwoo0
NINJA4LIFE
GoPDemon said:
There is no need for a ruling errata or anything else to be made. "IF", and that's a big IF, you follow the directions from the Rule's Book, when it states that you must ANNOUNCE your intentions clearly to your opponent, then there would not be any issue with Sakuretsu Armor at all.
Here is a sample Gameplay:
Player A states in a clear voice--
(Draw Phase)
"I Draw 1 card, if you do not wish to chain or activate any card effects, I will enter my Standby Phase"
(Standby Phase)
"I resolve Imperial Order's Maintenance Cost and choose not to pay 700 life points, destroying it. If you do not wish to activate any card effects, I will enter my Main Phase 1."Â
(Main Phase 1)
"I place 1 card in my Spell/Trap Zone. Do you wish to chain? No? I place Mystic Swordsman LV2 face-up in attack position. Do you wish to respond to the Summon? No? I flip face-up the Spell Card I set face-down to activate "The A. Forces", giving my Mystic Swordsman LV2 an additional 200 attack. Do you wish to chain to the activation? No? I will then enter my Battle Phase (Start Step to Battle Phase)."
(Battle Phase)
-Battle Step-
"I choose my Mystic Swordsman LV2 to attack your face-down card. Do you wish to respond to my announcement?
Player B states in a clear voice-
"I respond to your announcement by activating my face-down Trap Card, 'Sakurestu Armor', to destroy your Mystic Swordsman LV2."
At this point, the preceeding announcement of attack stops, and Mystic Swordsman LV2 is destroyed without completing the attack. The Damage Step of the Battle Phase is not entered, and the face-down card is not destroyed by effect or battle.
A lot of this may seem to be exaggerated, but it is necessary to avoid any misunderstandings and it will show you that you cannot progress to the next step until you have resolved any priority issues or give your opponent a chance to respond.
krazykidpsx
New Member
actually, what does the effect of MS or sakuretsu armo say?
when they battle against a face down monster, so because you play Sakuretsu armor, does it negate their effect?
NO it does not. Sakuretsu armor in no way stops the attack. They destroy the monster before they get to damage calculation.
Now if it was Cylinders in the other hand, were it says negate the attack, meaning sasuke samurai got its attack negated.
then i would see why.
But you know what, we need more explenation from Dlaanan, helpoemer or bishop for this one, cause im seeing it one way, and somebody else is seeing it different causing confusion.
when they battle against a face down monster, so because you play Sakuretsu armor, does it negate their effect?
NO it does not. Sakuretsu armor in no way stops the attack. They destroy the monster before they get to damage calculation.
Now if it was Cylinders in the other hand, were it says negate the attack, meaning sasuke samurai got its attack negated.
then i would see why.
But you know what, we need more explenation from Dlaanan, helpoemer or bishop for this one, cause im seeing it one way, and somebody else is seeing it different causing confusion.
Sakuretsu Armor
Normal Trap
You can only activate this card when your opponent declares an attack. Destroy the attacking monster.
Ok now, quite simply when you declare an attack with your monster, if your opponent activates "Sakurestsu Armor", your monster is destroyed. All of this happens during the declaration step of the battle phase. You have not entered the damage step.
Now, does it negate the attack? Technically speaking no. However, since the attacking monster is destroyed, there is no attack to proceed to the damage step.
Now in regards to "Mystic Swordsman LV2" (or LV4 or LV6), the effect of that card activates in the DAMAGE STEP.
From the early FAQ that Kevin has posted on the forums about when effects activate:
DAMAGE STEP DETAILS
Here is an explanation of the Damage Step and when certain card effects are
activated. Remember that the Damage Step comes after the Battle Step. Items
with [bracketed numbers] are the sections explicitly listed in the rulebook.
Items with >>arrows are additional sub-sections that might crop up.
[1] Enter the Damage Step
>> "Sasuke Samurai", "Paladin of White Dragon", "Mystic Swordsman LV2",
"Mystic Swordsman LV 4" activate and resolve now.
So, what this means is if the "Mystic Swordsman LV2" declares an attack on a face-down defense position monster, and the opponent activates "Sakuretsu Armor" in response, "Mystic Swordsman LV2" is destroyed and since the attack then disappears (and never enters the damage step), the face-down monster is not destroyed.
As for what's the difference between "negating" an attack ("Magic Cylinder" / "Draining Shield") and "destroying" the monster ("Sakuretsu Armor", "Mirror Force"*). Well, this is where a little common sense helps. In both scenarios, the attack no longer happens*. The difference being that when "Magic Cylinder" is used, the attack is negated, but the monster stays on the field. Hence why it has that wording. With "Sakuretsu Armor", because it says to destroy the attacking monster, the attack will likewise go away since the monster isn't on the field by the time the damage step rolls around.
* This footnote is added here before anyone else mentions. "Mirror Force" has been errata-ed so that it no longer negates the attack. Because of this, there is one exception to the rule where monsters are "destroyed" yet an attack can go through: "Total Defense Shogun". Because he can attack from defense position, if the opponent activates "Mirror Force", the other attack position monsters are destroyed, but since TDS would be in defense position, his attack would go through as well... he wasn't destroyed. Of course if the opponent did activate "Sakuretsu Armor" instead, then he would be destroyed and the attack would likewise be stopped.
*phew*
- Andrew
Normal Trap
You can only activate this card when your opponent declares an attack. Destroy the attacking monster.
Ok now, quite simply when you declare an attack with your monster, if your opponent activates "Sakurestsu Armor", your monster is destroyed. All of this happens during the declaration step of the battle phase. You have not entered the damage step.
Now, does it negate the attack? Technically speaking no. However, since the attacking monster is destroyed, there is no attack to proceed to the damage step.
Now in regards to "Mystic Swordsman LV2" (or LV4 or LV6), the effect of that card activates in the DAMAGE STEP.
From the early FAQ that Kevin has posted on the forums about when effects activate:
DAMAGE STEP DETAILS
Here is an explanation of the Damage Step and when certain card effects are
activated. Remember that the Damage Step comes after the Battle Step. Items
with [bracketed numbers] are the sections explicitly listed in the rulebook.
Items with >>arrows are additional sub-sections that might crop up.
[1] Enter the Damage Step
>> "Sasuke Samurai", "Paladin of White Dragon", "Mystic Swordsman LV2",
"Mystic Swordsman LV 4" activate and resolve now.
So, what this means is if the "Mystic Swordsman LV2" declares an attack on a face-down defense position monster, and the opponent activates "Sakuretsu Armor" in response, "Mystic Swordsman LV2" is destroyed and since the attack then disappears (and never enters the damage step), the face-down monster is not destroyed.
As for what's the difference between "negating" an attack ("Magic Cylinder" / "Draining Shield") and "destroying" the monster ("Sakuretsu Armor", "Mirror Force"*). Well, this is where a little common sense helps. In both scenarios, the attack no longer happens*. The difference being that when "Magic Cylinder" is used, the attack is negated, but the monster stays on the field. Hence why it has that wording. With "Sakuretsu Armor", because it says to destroy the attacking monster, the attack will likewise go away since the monster isn't on the field by the time the damage step rolls around.
* This footnote is added here before anyone else mentions. "Mirror Force" has been errata-ed so that it no longer negates the attack. Because of this, there is one exception to the rule where monsters are "destroyed" yet an attack can go through: "Total Defense Shogun". Because he can attack from defense position, if the opponent activates "Mirror Force", the other attack position monsters are destroyed, but since TDS would be in defense position, his attack would go through as well... he wasn't destroyed. Of course if the opponent did activate "Sakuretsu Armor" instead, then he would be destroyed and the attack would likewise be stopped.
*phew*
- Andrew
Raigekick said:
That's 100% on the money as well. I was just trying to point out that "negating" an attack and destroying the attacking monster does the same thing.
- A
krazykidpsx
New Member
ah i understand now, since the facedown killers dont reach the damage step then its the reason why their effects never happen.
Okay good enough.
always new things to learn.
Okay good enough.
always new things to learn.
magic-snake
New Member
the lacking of the text "negate" will become apparent once you try too sakuratsu a machine wearing heavy mech support.
yeah, I agree. Same goes to Ring of Destruction.magic-snake said:
Followup question: If I attack with my monster, my opp responds with Sakuretsu, then I chain with Book of Moon on my attacking monster, will it stop Sakuretsu from destroying my monster? I think it would because my monster can not attack anymore. Am I correct on this?
That is a FAQ ruling. If you "Book of Moon" your attacking monster in response to "Sakuretsu Armor", your monster will not be destroyed. It's not so much because the attack is "stopped", but rather "Sakuretsu Armor" is a targeting effect and when your monster is flipped face-down, "Sakuretsu Armor" no longer "sees" what it was trying to target. It's the same for "Magic Cylinder" and "Draining Shield".
(From the FAQ itself)
"¢ If the turn player chains "Book of Moon" to "Sakuretsu Armor" to flip the attacking monster face-down, then the attacking monster is not destroyed by "Sakuretsu Armor".
- A
(From the FAQ itself)
"¢ If the turn player chains "Book of Moon" to "Sakuretsu Armor" to flip the attacking monster face-down, then the attacking monster is not destroyed by "Sakuretsu Armor".
- A
Bigred Blues
New Member
Best way to look at is that if the Monster isnt face up on the field after Battle Decleration when entering the damage step, then it will never reach the Damage step, if it never reaches the damage step it destorys nothing, it inflicts no damage, and generally the effect is not activated.
I see what you guys are saying. Sakuretsu is a targeting trap. Maybe there is something more to it than it being a targeted trap. Nightmare Wheel and Spellbinding Circle are both targeting trap but will not be affected if the targeted monster is flip faced down by Book of Moon.