Some questions

[mikoal]

i just got some questions and i need some clarifications.

1) opponent has 1 monster, you have horus lvl6, and you activate creature swap, what hpapens?

2)
a)
p1 has 1 face up monster, mystic tomato, and 4 face down monsters, and 3 set blast with chains,

p2 has 1 face up monster, mystic tomato, and 4 face down monsters, and 3 set blast with chains

its p1's turn, he activates heavy storm
what happens?

who selects the destruction first?
can one choose the opp's face up mosnter and therefore the remaining BwC no longer work?

or...

the all select their 3 targets simultaneously?


b) same scenario as quesion 2, but what if P1's mystic tomato was a gearfried the iron knight?


3)return from different dimension jinzo, does he stay on the field? i would say he doesnt.

4)a) player 1 has a set BwC
player 2 has a set decree
p2 plays heavy storm
what hapens?

does BwC still work?

and what if

b)player 1 has a set BwC
player 2 has a set decree
p1 plays heavy storm
what hapens?

does BwC still work?

5)damage step substep 2(i beleive) are the next questions, where it states the monster flips up and continous effects kicks in, and jinzo's effect would happen right away......


a)hayabusa knight equipped with BwC and atacks a face down jinzo, does jinzo die? and y doesnt he?

b)thousand eye restrict vs tsukuyomi, tsuku attacks it face down, TER should die, but what if u apply the substep 2, and continous effects jumps in and occurs here? can tsukuyomi even continue to atack?

c)1 face up command knight,. and 1 face down command knight, opp has a cyber dragon, atks the face down command knight, does it die? i think it does, but once again, what about the damage step substep 2??

d)p1 has a 7 color fish,with a legendary ocean and gravity bind up, atacks a face down spell cancellor, what happens? does the fish stop on its tracks? and explain how does that happen..


thanks...

 

[Barty64]

for the first one i don't think you would be able to activate it you would need some thing to send and you carn't send horus lv6 or at least i don't think so im usually wrong on these things

 

[Tkwiget]

i just got some questions and i need some clarifications.

1) opponent has 1 monster, you have horus lvl6, and you activate creature swap, what hpapens?

Creature Swap can't be activated in this effect because Creature Swap changes the ownership of two monsters. If only two monsters are on the field and one isn't eligible to be affected by Creature Swap, you can't activate it.

2)
a)
p1 has 1 face up monster, mystic tomato, and 4 face down monsters, and 3 set blast with chains,

p2 has 1 face up monster, mystic tomato, and 4 face down monsters, and 3 set blast with chains

its p1's turn, he activates heavy storm
what happens?

who selects the destruction first?
can one choose the opp's face up mosnter and therefore the remaining BwC no longer work?

or...

the all select their 3 targets simultaneously?

Blast with Chain were never activated in your scenario. Their destroying effect will not activate while face down. I only say this because you never specifically mentioned the activation of Blast with Chain at all.

b) same scenario as quesion 2, but what if P1's mystic tomato was a gearfried the iron knight?

Read my answer to Part A.

3)return from different dimension jinzo, does he stay on the field? i would say he doesnt.

Jinzo will never negate the condition Return From the Different Dimension places on monsters that it Special Summons. Jinzo will be removed from play at the End Phase of the turn Return From the Different Dimension was activated in as long as no effect prevents this from happening. For example, if Jinzo was flipped face down by Book of Moon he wouldn't be removed from play.

4)a) player 1 has a set BwC
player 2 has a set decree
p2 plays heavy storm
what hapens?

does BwC still work?

The activation of Blast with Chain was never mentioned. Player 1 doesn't get the effect.

and what if

b)player 1 has a set BwC
player 2 has a set decree
p1 plays heavy storm
what hapens?

does BwC still work?

Once again, you never mentioned the activation of Blast with Chain or Royal Decree. I don't assume anything. Both trap cards get destroyed by Heavy Storm.

5)damage step substep 2(i beleive) are the next questions, where it states the monster flips up and continous effects kicks in, and jinzo's effect would happen right away......


a)hayabusa knight equipped with BwC and atacks a face down jinzo, does jinzo die? and y doesnt he?

Once Jinzo is flipped face up and isn't in the middle of a card resolving, the effect will establish itself on the field and start negating. Hayabusa Knight will use his 500 attack point boost from Blast with Chain.

b)thousand eye restrict vs tsukuyomi, tsuku attacks it face down, TER should die, but what if u apply the substep 2, and continous effects jumps in and occurs here? can tsukuyomi even continue to atack?

Thousand-Eyes Restrict will not prevent attacks from continuing once the monster has reached the Damage Step.

c)1 face up command knight,. and 1 face down command knight, opp has a cyber dragon, atks the face down command knight, does it die? i think it does, but once again, what about the damage step substep 2??

The face down Command Knight will be destroyed because the face down Command Knight has already been selected as the attack target and is flipped face up in the Damage Step. Command Knight can't stop the attack at this point.

d)p1 has a 7 color fish,with a legendary ocean and gravity bind up, atacks a face down spell cancellor, what happens? does the fish stop on its tracks? and explain how does that happen..

Gravity Bind will not stop the attack of 7 Colored Fish in this scenario.

thanks...

Answers are the bolded words. I haven't dealt with the Damage Step in a while, so I might be a little off. If I am then someone like Skey, Masterwoo0, or John Danker will post and correct me.

 

[skey23]

i just got some questions and i need some clarifications.

1) opponent has 1 monster, you have horus lvl6, and you activate creature swap, what hpapens?

YES, "Creature Swap" CAN be activated, but the effect of "Creature Swap" will disappear since "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6" is not affected by Spell Cards and can't be switched to the opponent. NO MONSTERS will change sides.

2)
a)
p1 has 1 face up monster, mystic tomato, and 4 face down monsters, and 3 set blast with chains,

p2 has 1 face up monster, mystic tomato, and 4 face down monsters, and 3 set blast with chains

its p1's turn, he activates heavy storm
what happens?

who selects the destruction first?
can one choose the opp's face up mosnter and therefore the remaining BwC no longer work?

or...

the all select their 3 targets simultaneously?

You need to build and resolve the chain.

P1 activates "Heavy Storm".
P2 chains 1st "Blast with Chain".
P1 chains 1st "Blast with Chain".
P2 chains 2nd "Blast with Chain".
P1 chains 2nd "Blast with Chain".
P2 chains 3rd "Blast with Chain".
P1 chains 3rd "Blast with Chain".
P2 does not add anything.
P1 does not add anything.
Resolve chain.
All of the "Blast with Chain"s will equip to the chosen face-up monster(s).
"Heavy Storm" will resolve and destroy all of them. Their effects will form a SEGOC chain (yes) with all 3 of the Turn Player's (P1) "Blast with Chain"s put on the chain as links 1, 2 and 3. Then P2's are on the chain as links 3, 4 and 5.
Resolve the chain.
P2 gets to destroy 3 cards on the field.
P1 gets to destroy 3 cards on the field.

b) same scenario as quesion 2, but what if P1's mystic tomato was a gearfried the iron knight?

The scenario would not end up any differently because the effects of the "Blast with Chain"s will still have to wait until "Heavy Storm" finishes it's resolution before they can activate and resolve, even though they were destroyed during the resolution of the chain by "Gearfried the Iron Knight"s continuous effect.

3)return from different dimension jinzo, does he stay on the field? i would say he doesnt.

No, he doesn't stay on the field.

4)a) player 1 has a set BwC
player 2 has a set decree
p2 plays heavy storm
what hapens?

does BwC still work?

Are you suggesting that both were chained? Does P1 have a face-up monster? Need more information.

and what if

b)player 1 has a set BwC
player 2 has a set decree
p1 plays heavy storm
what hapens?

does BwC still work?

Same as before. Need more information. Who chained what to what and when?

5)damage step substep 2(i beleive) are the next questions, where it states the monster flips up and continous effects kicks in, and jinzo's effect would happen right away......


a)hayabusa knight equipped with BwC and atacks a face down jinzo, does jinzo die? and y doesnt he?

He wouldn't have died anyway. 1500 ATK vs. 1500 DEF.

b)thousand eye restrict vs tsukuyomi, tsuku attacks it face down, TER should die, but what if u apply the substep 2, and continous effects jumps in and occurs here? can tsukuyomi even continue to atack?

"Thousand-Eyes Restrict" will still be destroyed. You have already entered the Damage Step.

c)1 face up command knight,. and 1 face down command knight, opp has a cyber dragon, atks the face down command knight, does it die? i think it does, but once again, what about the damage step substep 2??

Yes, it dies.

d)p1 has a 7 color fish,with a legendary ocean and gravity bind up, atacks a face down spell cancellor, what happens? does the fish stop on its tracks? and explain how does that happen..

Attack still goes through because you've already entered the Damage Step.


Hope this helps!

 

[mikoal]

for question 2, since the SEGOC chain was developed and the targets were chosen, does it matter if the face up monster was destroyed?
you meniotned that
p2 gets to destroy 3 cards, and p1 destroys 3 cards
can p2 target the face up monster and if it does, will it effect p1's BwC's effect?

as for 2b)
wouldnt the selection of the destruction of the monsters =be differenet??

in eg 2 a) they select the destruction after all the BwC are chained, and when heavy is resolving.

but in 2b) wouldnt the destruction target occur immediately forciung the player to choose right after the activation.



4)a) player 1 has a set BwC with a face up monster
player 2 has a set decree
p2 plays Heavy Storm

so player 1 chiains Bwc
p2 chains decree

what hapens?

does BwC still work?

and what if

4)a) player 1 has a set BwC with a face up monster
player 2 has a set decree
p1 plays Heavy Storm

so player 1 chiains Bwc
p2 chains decree

what hapens?

does BwC still work?



for question 5, but they never entered into battle calculations yet, also never even destroyed the monsters yet, i think raigekick posted a battle step. and in damage step sub step 2 it mentions...the targetted monster flips up and continous effects kicks in, eg : jinzo.....

can you explain what that is trying to say?

 

[skey23]

for question 2, since the SEGOC chain was developed and the targets were chosen, does it matter if the face up monster was destroyed?

Nope. The targets have already been chosen and the effects have already been put on the chain. Destroying the equipped monster will not affect the resolution of the other effects.

you meniotned that
p2 gets to destroy 3 cards, and p1 destroys 3 cards
can p2 target the face up monster and if it does, will it effect p1's BwC's effect?

Nope. See above.

as for 2b)
wouldnt the selection of the destruction of the monsters =be differenet??

Nope. Let me 'break it down' for you...lol

P1 activates "Heavy Storm".
P2 chains 1st "Blast with Chain", choosing "Mystic Tomato"
P1 chains 1st "Blast with Chain", choosing "Gearfried the Iron Knight".
P2 chains 2nd "Blast with Chain", choosing "Mystic Tomato"
P1 chains 2nd "Blast with Chain", choosing "Gearfried the Iron Knight".
P2 chains 3rd "Blast with Chain", choosing "Mystic Tomato"
P1 chains 3rd "Blast with Chain", choosing "Gearfried the Iron Knight".
P2 does not add anything.
P1 does not add anything.
Resolve chain.

P1's 3rd "Blast with Chain" equips to "Gearfried the Iron Knight".
"Gearfried the Iron Knight"s effect immediately kicks in and destroys "Blast with Chain". The effect of "Blast with Chain" must wait until the current chain finishes resolving before it can activate, so it will wait.
P2's 3rd "Blast with Chain" equips to "Mystic Tomato".
P1's 2nd "Blast with Chain equips to "Gearfried the Iron Knight".
"Gearfried the Iron Knight"s effect immediately kicks in and destroys "Blast with Chain". The effect of "Blast with Chain" must wait until the current chain finishes resolving before it can activate, so it will wait.
P2's 2nd "Blast with Chain" equips to "Mystic Tomato".
P1's 1st "Blast with Chain" equips to "Gearfried the Iron Knight".
"Gearfried the Iron Knight"s effect immediately kicks in and destroys "Blast with Chain". The effect of "Blast with Chain" must wait until the current chain finishes resolving before it can activate, so it will wait.
P2's 1st "Blast with Chain" equips to "Mystic Tomato".
"Heavy Storm" resolves destroying the remaining Spell/Traps.
The effects of "Blast with Chain" must wait until the current chain finishes resolving before they can activate, so they will wait.
Now, since all 6 of the "Blast with Chain"s are currently waiting to activate, all with the same timing, they form a SEGOC chain, just like they did in the 1st scenario. So, as you can see, the outcome is identical to the 1st scenario.

Also, you don't pick what to destroy until the destruction effect of "Blast with Chain" activates during the SEGOC chain. By this time, they have all already been destroyed and are in the Graveyard. This is why destroying the equipped monster won't change anything.

4)a) player 1 has a set BwC with a face up monster
player 2 has a set decree
p2 plays Heavy Storm

so player 1 chiains Bwc
p2 chains decree

what hapens?

does BwC still work?

Nope. "Blast with Chain" was being negated by "Royal Decree" when it was destroyed.

and what if

4)a) player 1 has a set BwC with a face up monster
player 2 has a set decree
p1 plays Heavy Storm

so player 1 chiains Bwc
p2 chains decree

what hapens?

does BwC still work?

Same as before. It was being negated by "Royal Decree" when it was destroyed.

for question 5, but they never entered into battle calculations yet, also never even destroyed the monsters yet, i think raigekick posted a battle step. and in damage step sub step 2 it mentions...the targetted monster flips up and continous effects kicks in, eg : jinzo.....

can you explain what that is trying to say?

We didn't say you entered Damage Calculations, we said you've entered the Damage Step. Once the attack enters the Damage Step, the only thing that will stop it is if one of the monsters is destroyed somehow.

Hope this helps!

 

[masterwoo0]

for question 2, since the SEGOC chain was developed and the targets were chosen, does it matter if the face up monster was destroyed?
you meniotned that
p2 gets to destroy 3 cards, and p1 destroys 3 cards
can p2 target the face up monster and if it does, will it effect p1's BwC's effect?

You're forgetting that Blast with chain is being chained to Heavy Storm and they ALL resolve before heavy storm destroys them, so that is why they form a SEGOC. The effect is resolving at this point, and the cards are already in the Graveyard. The monster they were equipped to is no longer an issue.

 

[mikoal]

so wuts the prupose of continuous effects kicking in at substep 2?

 

[masterwoo0]

so wuts the purpose of continuous effects kicking in at substep 2?

I've never been a big fan of "Sub-Steps"...

Continuous Effects, such as Jinzo become active as soon as they are placed on the field, so if a face-down Jinzo is attacked and flipped face-up, he would immediately start to negate the effects of face-up Trap Cards (unless one happens to be "Skill Drain") until he is determined by Damage Calculation to be destroyed, or remain on the field.

If Jinzo is destroyed by Damage Calculation, his effect disappears at the "Send to Graveyard" portion of the Damage Step.

 

[mikoal]

but jinzo's negating trap effects occur even before any damage calculation occurs, before the monster is destroyed or not.

Jinzo's effect occurs before airknights piercing effect.

from what u are saying, why not place that step after the damage calculation?

 

[masterwoo0]

but jinzo's negating trap effects occur even before any damage calculation occurs, before the monster is destroyed or not.

Jinzo's effect occurs before airknights piercing effect.

from what u are saying, why not place that step after the damage calculation?

Because Jinzo's effect is not a "trigger" effect. It's a Continuous Effect that becomes active immediately upon being placed face-up on the field.

If the attacking monster is equipped with Blast with Chain, the 500 boost it received would disappear before Damage Calculation was started, and if that would have been enough to destroy Jinzo before it was removed, the decrease would obviously be significant if it didnt occur until after Damage Calculation was completed.

 

[Entropy]

What about the ruling for Ancient Gear Beast:

"¢ If "Ancient Gear Beast" attacks, and is destroyed before the end of the Damage Step, its effect is no longer applied after it is destroyed, even if it is still on the field and has not yet been sent to the Graveyard. (A Continuous Effect is no longer applied after the monster generating it has been destroyed, even if the monster is still on the field.) The effect of "Ancient Gear Beast" is applied up until the point it is destroyed, though.

 

[masterwoo0]

What about the ruling for Ancient Gear Beast:

"¢ If "Ancient Gear Beast" attacks, and is destroyed before the end of the Damage Step, its effect is no longer applied after it is destroyed, even if it is still on the field and has not yet been sent to the Graveyard. (A Continuous Effect is no longer applied after the monster generating it has been destroyed, even if the monster is still on the field.) The effect of "Ancient Gear Beast" is applied up until the point it is destroyed, though.

And when is a monster determined to be destroyed? After Damage Calculation has determined that it has received more Battle Damage than the monster's defense or attack.

EDIT: Notice that the Ancient Gear Beast Ruling states what I had already made clear, Jinzo will retain his effect to negate Trap Cards up until he is determined to be destroyed, at which point, he is then sent to the Graveyard as the last step of the Damage Step.

 

[Tiso]

And when is a monster determined to be destroyed? After Damage Calculation has determined that it has received more Battle Damage than the monster's defense.

That ruling pretty much states when.

 

[Entropy]

"If I had a nickel for every time someone said I was too terse...."

Sorry, I should have said something more. The only thing I'm disagreeing with is:

If Jinzo is destroyed by Damage Calculation, his effect disappears at the "Send to Graveyard" portion of the Damage Step.

 

[Tiso]

"If I had a nickel for every time someone said I was too terse...."

Sorry, I should have said something more. The only thing I'm disagreeing with is:

Since Ancient Gear Beast pretty much says otherwise to that.

 

[masterwoo0]

"If I had a nickel for every time someone said I was too terse...."

Sorry, I should have said something more. The only thing I'm disagreeing with is:

There are only 2 steps remaining after a monster is determined to be destroyed in Battle

Apply effects
Send to Graveyard

There is no monster mentioned that attacked Jinzo to apply its effect in this case. Jinzo's effect is continuous, so it doesnt "turn on" here since it is now destroyed, it "turns off", so, the only thing remaining is "Send to Graveyard".

 

[mikoal]

so wait...........
masterwoo , you are saying


Because Jinzo's effect is not a "trigger" effect. It's a Continuous Effect that becomes active immediately upon being placed face-up on the field.

If the attacking monster is equipped with Blast with Chain, the 500 boost it received would Disappear before Damage Calculation was started, and if that would have been enough to destroy Jinzo before it was removed, the decrease would obviously be significant if it didnt occur until after Damage Calculation was completed.



what about the other examples that was replied by simon key....
except for the hayabusa question, imagine 2 BwC was equipped instead of one






mikoal is quoted to have said:
5)damage step substep 2(i beleive) are the next questions, where it states the monster flips up and continous effects kicks in, and Jinzo's effect would happen right away......


a)Hayabusa Knight equipped with BwC and atacks a face down Jinzo, does Jinzo die? and y doesnt he?

He wouldn't have died anyway. 1500 ATK vs. 1500 DEF.

Quote:
mikoal is quoted to have said:
b)thousand eye restrict vs Tsukuyomi, tsuku attacks it face down, TER should die, but what if u apply the substep 2, and continous effects jumps in and occurs here? can Tsukuyomi even continue to atack?

"Thousand-Eyes Restrict" will still be destroyed. You have already entered the Damage Step.

Quote:
mikoal is quoted to have said:
c)1 face up Command Knight,. and 1 face down Command Knight, opp has a Cyber Dragon, atks the face down Command Knight, does it die? i think it does, but once again, what about the damage step substep 2??

Yes, it dies.

Quote:
mikoal is quoted to have said:
d)p1 has a 7 color fish,with A Legendary Ocean and Gravity Bind up, atacks a face down spell cancellor, what happens? does the fish stop on its tracks? and explain how does that happen..

Attack still goes through because you've already entered the Damage Step.


Hope this helps!

 

[DarkLogicianOfCaos]

As far as the gravity Bind, Command Knight and 1000 Eyes Questions, they prevent attacks, but at this point, the point of flipping, the attacks are already under way and "resolving", therefore there is no attack to stop, the "attack" is done, the resolution of the attack is what remains. at that point, you would need to "negate" the attack.

 

[skey23]

If Jinzo is destroyed by Damage Calculation, his effect disappears at the "Send to Graveyard" portion of the Damage Step.

"¢ If "Ancient Gear Beast" attacks, and is destroyed before the end of the Damage Step, its effect is no longer applied after it is destroyed, even if it is still on the field and has not yet been sent to the Graveyard. (A Continuous Effect is no longer applied after the monster generating it has been destroyed, even if the monster is still on the field.) The effect of "Ancient Gear Beast" is applied up until the point it is destroyed, though.

This ruling disagrees with you woo0. This is what entropy is talking about. If "Jinzo" is deemed destroyed by battle, then his effect will no longer be active. This would occur during Sub Step 5 of the Damage Step, before "Jinzo" is sent to the Graveyard during Sub Step 6.

so wait...........
masterwoo , you are saying


Because Jinzo's effect is not a "trigger" effect. It's a Continuous Effect that becomes active immediately upon being placed face-up on the field.

If the attacking monster is equipped with Blast with Chain, the 500 boost it received would Disappear before Damage Calculation was started, and if that would have been enough to destroy Jinzo before it was removed, the decrease would obviously be significant if it didnt occur until after Damage Calculation was completed.



what about the other examples that was replied by simon key....
except for the hayabusa question, imagine 2 BwC was equipped instead of one

As soon as "Jinzo" is flipped during Sub Step 2, the effects of ALL trap cards are immediately negated. So that means the ATK boost from "Blast with Chain" is gone.

So that means even if you had 3 of them equipped to the same monster, as soon as "Jinzo" is flipped by the attack, all 3 will be negated. And if the monster's original ATK is not big enough to destroy "Jinzo", then he won't die.


Hope this helps!