Stupid question...

U

Ultiheart

New Member
...for a stupid boy.

Just tinkering with a Reversal Quiz deck...and had to be clear on something:

Reversal Quiz:

"Send all cards in your hand and on your side of the field to the Graveyard. Call the type of card (Spell, Trap, or Monster) on top of your Deck. If you call it right, exchange your current Life Points with your opponent's current ones."

I looked using the "search" option...but couldn't find the answer anyways, yet the answer SHOULD be blatantly obvious, even to me (he who only just found out that quickplays must be SET first in order to use them in your opponent's turn :eek: , thanks chaosruler)

Would the tokens from something like Scapegoat be subject to the cost of Reversal Quiz? I'm pretty sure no, due to the wording on the card...however, I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a "Konami said so" scenario linked with such a question.

Thanks in advance.
 
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May I ask what the logic behind that is though? As the card text does clearly state, all CARDS.

I assume that from some ruling, tokens have also been deemed "cards" for this cost, and all other related costs. However, directions to the Reasoning behind the rule, or the rule itself would be nice.
 
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Didn't you guys just tell me on these same threads not too long ago that I couldn't send Sheep Token (converted to Fire Attributes due to DNA Transplant) to the Graveyard as a cost for Ultimate Baseball Kid's second effect. Remeber, I was wondering if could just to clear the field, not for the actuall Effect Damage and I recieved a resounding "NO".
 
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Ultimate Baseball Kid is different since the effect says you HAVE to send it to the Graveyard (it's part of the cost) which you can't do with a token, hence your resounding NO.

When the effect says to send all cards from the field to the GY or whatever, the token is simply removed from the field.
 
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This is why I was confused...other cards would suggest tokens aren't subject to the heavy cost of Reversal Quiz, even the TEXT on the card says "cards"...and nothing in Netrepâ„¢ seems to suggest to me that tokens have been included.

Is there even a rule that counts tokens (for such costs) as "cards"? Perhaps that is something to look at.

EDIT: Found this...if it helps (from Scapegoat in netrep)

"[Re: Spatial Collapse] While "Spatial Collapse" is active and you have 1 or more cards already on your side of the field, you cannot activate "Scapegoat" because you would have your 1 previous card + the "Scapegoat" card + 4 monster tokens = 6."

Of course...that means that for the effect of Spatial Collapse...tokens count towards the 5 card limit...and presumably, tokens, for any such effect are "cards".

...please let me be wrong.
 
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Well, that's different because the Sheep Tokens count as Monster Cards for all intents and purposes on the field. But when you have to send monsters to the Graveyard, a place where the tokens cannot exist, then things get grey for me.
 
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I would say that this is a "either/or" effect.

"Either" you have cards in your hand, Spell and Trap Zone, as well as/or eligible Monsters WITH ineligible Tokens,

"Or", if you only have Tokens on the field, you cannot activate Reversal Quiz since you cannot send any cards to the Graveyard.

If a Token(s) just happens to be mixed in with the rest of the cards being sent for the activation of Reversal Quiz, then you are still able to fill the requirement, as cards are being sent to the Graveyard, but the Tokens are just removed from play.
 
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So then the question is (again, why I'm confused): How come for the prerequisites to activate Reversal Quiz...if only token(s) exist and no cards in hand or on the field, they are not able to be used for the activation (i.e. not proper cards) yet for the cost, they suddenly become subject to the "Send all CARDS from your hand and on your side of the field..." cost.

I'd definitely agree with: If you have only tokens on your side of the field, with no cards in hand (or on your side of the field) Reversal Quiz cannot be activated...but I don't see why suddenly the rule changes for the cost.

Then again, I'm pretty sure there's something I'm missing here.
 
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Banisher of the Light

Card Text
As long as this card remains face-up on the field, any card sent to the Graveyard is removed from play instead.

Rulings
When "Banisher of the Light" is destroyed it will be sent to the Graveyard. If "Banisher of the Light" and other monsters are destroyed simultaneously all monsters are sent to the Graveyard.


Effects that trigger when cards are sent to the Graveyard, such as "Sangan", "Witch of the Black Forest", "Mystic Tomato", "The Immortal of Thunder" and "Last Will", will not activate.
 
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For Banisher of the Light, it only redirects cards to be removed from play instead of going to the Graveyard. So the intent was to initially send the cards to the Graveyard, but they were prevented from entering and were removed from play.

Tokens can never be sent to the Graveyard, ever, so they in my opinion, cannot be included for Reversal Quiz's effect since alone, they must be removed from play as they can't enter the Graveyard.

So, I dont think it's a fair comparison since regular cards can be sent, but not end up in, the Graveyard; and Tokens cannot be sent, and are instead removed from play.
 
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I'm sorry to have to mention this again, but it seems my initial point is being missed. People are discussing that tokens don't go to the graveyard, but are (if destroyed or removed) removed from play.

MY issue is why would tokens be considered "cards" for the cost of Reversal Quiz? What justification is there for such a comment IF the very same tokens can't be "sent" as a cost for the activation of Reversal Quiz (keeping in mind, that in the tokens case, there may be no graveyard for them, but in a sense, they WOULD "go to the graveyard" but rather, it is "redirected" as such to just being removed altogether)

It's just interesting that for 1 part of the text they AREN'T considered cards...yet for another part they are.
 
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Mostly because they're a bit sloppy on the translations where they be a bit brief rather than spell out every little detail. Tokens are considered "cards" for part of Secret Barrel as well so it's not like there aren't related rulings.

As for Reversal Quiz, the cost is basically to clear your side of the field and make sure you have no cards in hand. It doesn't quite matter where they all go which is why in this case I'd be more lenient to the fact that a token alone could be used to satisfy the cost.
 
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Tokens are considered Normal Monster Cards. Where they go is the issue, not whether they are cards or not, since they are always considered cards. There is no part of the text that they aren't considered Monster Cards. It's only that thier final destination may make them ineligble to fulfill certain costs.

Since the token cannot go the Graveyard, then can it fullfill a cost that requires you send it to the Graveyard? I already agree that they can't. But what if you wish to send them anyway? Can you choose to do this knowing that they won't arrive in the desired location? Knowing that the effect they paid fo will not trigger, but effectivly clearing up a Monster Card Zone?

I dislike the Banisher of the Light example. Tokens go nowhere. They are not redirected or removed from play. They cease to exist. Only for most effects, the game doesn't know this and treats them as a good 'ol Monster Card untill they leave the field. Sending one to the Graveyard or the removed from play area should meet the intent but not the effect, in my opinion.
 
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Then considering that's been answered, one last thing regarding Scapegoat and Reversal Quiz (though, I'm pretty sure I'll end up answering it myself).

If you have a set Scapegoat, and use Reversal Quiz, could Scapegoat be chained (assuming it has been set for a turn) in order to have 4 tokens by the time Reversal Quiz fully resolves? (I only ask, because I usually assume that costs are done in the activation stage of the card, not the resolution, so I just wonder if this would allow you to use Reversal Quiz, yet have some protection).

Thanks again.
 
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