The Eventual Collapse of Advantage?

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Complex_Mind

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As most of you noticed, this month and next month is the breaking point for most duelists. Cookie cut decks, unoriginality, and repetativeness is becoming overwhelming. The new ban list is coming though, which brings hope to these duelists.

From what I know, the April 1st banlist must correspond with the Japanese banlist, due to World Championships. If this is correct, if KoJ doesn't get rid of Pot of Greed, we will get it back. Which brings fear to a lot of duelists. Decks that are now out of commission will get their source of draw power back, ending the empire of advantage everyone has tried so hard to build.

All of those +1s and +2s won't have so much meaning anymore, people will begin to overextend again, knowing that they will fall back on Pot of Greed to save their foolish lives.

This is not a discussion of the next banlist. But a discussion of the possibility Pot of Greed coming back. I'd like to see what users think will happen to the game if it comes back, what new decks will show up, what decks will reawaken.


This can be bad news, or good news. Depending on how you look at the game. And because it's appropriate...

:dj_eek
 
Unfortunately the decks that are still seeing the majority of play in Regionals events are pretty much Cookie Cutter minus Envoy. The creativity and large volume of alternative decks that the banned list has made possible has not picked up the necessary steam to prove to OCG that the additional banned cards were going to make much difference. We will probably fall back to a list very close to the last OCG list bringing back Pot as well as a second Magician of Faith, which makes it hard not to continue running the old Cookie Cutter decks.

The full range of options opened up by some of the bans can not be seen until you have competitors at major events willing to step outside the comfortable box they have been playing in and try new strategies. Since that definitely hasn't been the case I would expect to see some minor changes to the last OCG list and nothing more this time around. We may even see 2 or 3 cards that are seeing very heavy play limited or semi'd just to make a change. But I don't believe we proved anything substantial with the extra cards banned last time around. More is the pity as I think UDE was actually going in the right direction.
 
I can already tell this thread will just boom into a heated discussion over the Advanced Format lists. Advantage will always exist in a game. Whether you can coop with Pot of Greed or not in people's decks shouldn't really be a concern. You should be getting them to use it as quickly as possible. However, this does promote abuse with Magician of Faith and Tsukuyomi.

I honestly don't really care what they do to the lists. I'm just sick of playing in this format.
 
If Pot reaturns you will see psycho Turbo Magical Merchant Pot Decks for the first time in TCG terrirtories.

So far nobody wants to venture off in making the deck, but if somebody does it.. man.. I cant wait to see that.

I know i dont play... but Anything that would cause disaster over at Metagame is fine with me :D Cause we all know they havent talked about it yet.
 
Honestly, when did Pot of Greed become this broken card that makes or breaks card advantage. This is a game where you get to draw one card per turn. One card! And suddenly a card that thins your deck out by two is broken? Pot is a drop in the bucket. A whisper in this game. He helps, but he can't really do anything great on his own/ It's still going to be up to your deck to and build to pull off a win. Pot is a much needed card in game where draw power is mediocre at best.
 
Let me clarify. I didn't mean to make it sound like Pot alone was going to make the difference in the upcoming Ban List. I only highlighted one issue that Konami left as a problem and UDE attempted to better restrict. The extra cards UDE banned that were not on the OCG list were highly abused and the Ban should have had a heavier impact on what other decks had potential. Since there was so little time to see new decks become popular I think Konami will view it as a failed experiment and we'll go to only what is on their list in the future. Which is bad since they have a different card pool and thus have a different meta that they address with their list. I truly never saw Pot of Greed as a ground breaking card, in fact I often left it out of decks without any large deficiency being noticed. But the abuse factor that can come from 2 or 3 Magician of Faith and recycling Pot of Greed (especially now that there are some new potent combos to heavily abuse this cycle even more) makes for a bit too much of a "Race to the Good Cards" style of play instead of "Utilize synergy and tactics to achieve victory" format. I have been quite pleased to see the Ban List used as a way to limit to some extent the Luck factor that had every game a mirror match and the lucky player would triumph.

I just have to ask Twiget what is wrong with the current format? What is causing you to dislike the current game options? While I've been very disappointed to see so little change in the decks being used in high-level competition I've seen nothing overpowering or unfair in the current game that should be discouraging or frustrating beyond the old "Nobody has any originality" complaint.

Please understand I am not trying to start any kind of fight over what should or shouldn't be on the next ban list. I'm just trying to understand what the current frustrations are and where the problems seem to be stemming from.
 
its not 100% just the game its a 50/50 thing.

remember 50% is the card pool the other 50% is the players, if all 50% wants to use only 1 deck type, then the game will be just that 1 deck type. and untill people start to actually play the game and not just "oh i have to win so i have to use said deck" then the game it self wont improve.

Remember last weeks Advance Format decks Area contest [create a structure deck]

that actually brought out alot of originality that not many people have seen, wait till this wedness day for the next little contest.

again its all on the players that dont want to play something different. which is why, I personally belive, that if we are gonna have a forum with the first 5-10 pages with the same deck, doesnt that just tell you something?

the fortunate part is that here @ COG we dont have 5-10 pages of the same stuff.
 
This game has changed since the banning of Pot of Greed. Pot of Greed is much more powerful now, that's why we don't have it.

I said this wasn't a discussion of the next advanced format list, but a discussion of what impact the Japanese ban list will have on the American one (sorry if that wasn't clear) and most importantly Pot of Greed. It is a game breaking card, really. I'd like to see the thoughts on this of users on the forum.

If it breaks out into an argument, I will request for it to be locked.
 
Pot isnt broken. Its just 2 card draw for no cost.


hey.. maybe?? i dunno, nah cant be. Impossible.. Who knows??

Ive seen plenty of people lose after Pot of Greed and ive seen them win after Pot of Greed. so its a 50/50 its not anything you couldnt deal with.. Sorry i was talking about OCG there. lol
 
I really don't consider Pot of Greed a game-breaking card. Broken? Yes. Game-breaking? No. Yes, it can be helpful in almost any situation, and has no cost, but the extra card might or might not win the game for you. And that chance factor plays a big part.

I really don't think the deck types themselves would change drastically. Many would gain back some of the draw power, but, again, that one extra card won't make a big difference. The combos have been mentioned, especially Pot+Magician (woohoo, i get 3 new cards). The likelihood of the new banlist, should Pot of Greed be taken off, should still not be drastic. Players will continue to use what works, meaning we'll fall back onto lack of originality, regardless....
 
Without fanning the flames, I don't believe Pot was banned because of the advantage it provides. A 2 for 1? No big deal. But yeah, we all used it most of (if not all) of the time. I feel it was banned though because of combo potential. Let's not forget 'The Trinity' that was all the rave a few months ago. If you got to Pot, Graceful, and Duo before your opponent, chances are it was GG.

Back then, with multiple Magician of Faith and Tsukuyomi it was easy to use and re-use Pot of Greed. With both of those being limited to 1, that becomes a lot harder to do. But now we have the Magical Merchant + Pot of Avarice speed-thru. Imagine that with Pot of Greed as well?

If Pot comes back this soon, I'll be surprised. Very surprised.
 
Jathro said:
Without fanning the flames, I don't believe Pot was banned because of the advantage it provides. A 2 for 1? No big deal. But yeah, we all used it most of (if not all) of the time. I feel it was banned though because of combo potential. Let's not forget 'The Trinity' that was all the rave a few months ago. If you got to Pot, Graceful, and Duo before your opponent, chances are it was GG.

Back then, with multiple Magician of Faith and Tsukuyomi it was easy to use and re-use Pot of Greed. With both of those being limited to 1, that becomes a lot harder to do. But now we have the Magical Merchant + Pot of Avarice speed-thru. Imagine that with Pot of Greed as well?

If Pot comes back this soon, I'll be surprised. Very surprised.
Click to expand...

Most of you don't seem to understand what I mean, you probably don't notice how good Pot of Greed would be now, how we took it for granted before. Pop it in your deck for fun, and you'll see.

And I wouldn't be surprised if Pot of Greed came back this early. Pot of Greed was never banned in Japan, so if it's not banned next Japanese list. Japanese lists and American lists need to be the same for Worlds.

I understand the potential Pot of Greed will have on this game if it returns, obviously no one else does. :p

I guess we'll see then.
 
Complex_Mind said:
Most of you don't seem to understand what I mean, you probably don't notice how good Pot of Greed would be now, how we took it for granted before. Pop it in your deck for fun, and you'll see.

And I wouldn't be surprised if Pot of Greed came back this early. Pot of Greed was never banned in Japan, so if it's not banned next Japanese list. Japanese lists and American lists need to be the same for Worlds.

I understand the potential Pot of Greed will have on this game if it returns, obviously no one else does. :p

I guess we'll see then.
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Who said both lists have to be the same?

Has UDE published official documentation that it would actually be the same come world 2006?

UDE has made it possible to get a different list, and again anything goes comes april. we cant speculate, nobody thought Jar of Greed would get banned but Mr. Tewart proved everybody wrong.

Cyber Jar deck OTK got killed, Clean!. Man I loved that deck. really.. that deck was so much fun to play.

I dont have to mention I play OCG to tell you Jar of Greed isnt a big deal... Realy its like what ever. Even Exculsivity virus is like what ever.. :)
 
I really don't think Pot of Greed is that much to worry about, honestly. One extra card, a so-called 2:1 deal. There are many of those around. And I notice people are only lingering on how their opponent will be using it. You guys can use it too, you know. If it works, work it. Worried about so many Pot of Faith combos? Run them yourself.

Because at the end of it all, if everyone is using it, then no-one has the advantage. Drawing one extra random card from your Deck is not really going to totally shatter your opponent's chances of winning (unless you're lucky and have the right combo).

For people who think, as mentioned above, the game is turning into a "Race For The Good Cards" instead of a strategic thing, I'd say you're wrong. Most of the game is about combos, which by definition require at least some strategy to work. Sure, there are a few overpowerful cards lying around, but that's what the Ban List is for. Pot of Greed may be powerful, but no more so than a well-timed Dark Hole (in fact, significantly less so, as you'd then get in a direct attack possibly for a win, while Pot of Greed wouldn't guarantee anything).

People cling to the past. That's where most of their lives are. That's why, most of the time, they are unwilling to concede to something new without a fight. But if people started to simply accept the changes and start working with them, things would be a whole lot better. You may dislike it, but you can't change it, so there's no point brooding over it.

Plus, all this is just speculation at the moment, anyway.
 
I see no reason for the OCG and CCG lists to be the same, afterall players from the CCG have previously competed against OCG players even though we still don't have access to all their cards.

I seriously can't wait for the new banned list, I'm starting to give serious thought to giving up as I'm so sick of CC-decks, facing the same decks over and over gets boring even when you yourself run a new deck in nearly every tournament. It's gotten to the point where I think to myself:
I get more enjoyment out of 30-60mins playing an MMOG than an entire day at a tournament, what's the point in going...
I only know a very small number of players who try run unique decks, the rest just go for whatever wins.
Strongly suspect I'll have given up playing Yu-Gi-Oh, other than the odd friendly, before the year is out as it won't take long for a new CC to take hold after the new banned list is released, not even sure I'll wait that long to stop going to tournaments all-together (already started skipping one's I could easily have gone to).
 
*attempts to not get into the Ban List, and stays on original, non-flamey topic*

Pot of Greed: Draw 2 cards from your deck.

Broken? How so? Those 2 cards, if they are game-breaking, are the ones that should be banned. Pot has nothing to do with it. All Pot does is give you 2 cards. If those two cards end the game, it's THEIR brokenness, not Pot's, that ended it.
 
Jason_C said:
*attempts to not get into the Ban List, and stays on original, non-flamey topic*

Pot of Greed: Draw 2 cards from your deck.

Broken? How so? Those 2 cards, if they are game-breaking, are the ones that should be banned. Pot has nothing to do with it. All Pot does is give you 2 cards. If those two cards end the game, it's THEIR brokenness, not Pot's, that ended it.
Click to expand...

I don't understand how that ISN'T broken.


daivahataka said:
I see no reason for the OCG and CCG lists to be the same, afterall players from the CCG have previously competed against OCG players even though we still don't have access to all their cards.

I seriously can't wait for the new banned list, I'm starting to give serious thought to giving up as I'm so sick of CC-decks, facing the same decks over and over gets boring even when you yourself run a new deck in nearly every tournament. It's gotten to the point where I think to myself:
I get more enjoyment out of 30-60mins playing an MMOG than an entire day at a tournament, what's the point in going...
I only know a very small number of players who try run unique decks, the rest just go for whatever wins.
Strongly suspect I'll have given up playing Yu-Gi-Oh, other than the odd friendly, before the year is out as it won't take long for a new CC to take hold after the new banned list is released, not even sure I'll wait that long to stop going to tournaments all-together (already started skipping one's I could easily have gone to).
Click to expand...

Everyone can't wait until the new bans.

But think of it this way:

New Bans 4/1
New CC deck established 4/25
New Bans 8/1.


And no, it won't be any different this time around.
 
That's the reason they change the ban list every 3 months in Japan, and not every 6 months... Ah, hell, we'll just have to wait and see :haveaday_
 
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