Threatoning Roar

[krishna]

Threatening Roar

In the past I was always told that you can't activate Threatening Roar during the time your opponent announces that they are ending their main phase and entering their battle phase.
And yet, in the DS game, YGO World Championship 2007, it lets you. It almost encourages you to. Is this.. correct?

Can you activate it when the opponent announces that they are leaving their main phase 1?

 

[Maruno]

A Phase can't end unless both players agree on it. Even if the turn player doesn't have anything else to do in their Main Phase and wants to continue on, you still get an opportunity to throw in some last-minute cards before the Phase ends.

You could also activate Threatening Roar at the start of the Battle Phase, before the turn player declares an attack. Activating Threatening Roar in response to an attack (when you could activate Magic Cylinder, etc.) will NOT negate or stop that attack, because the attack has already been declared.

 

[krishna]

So if I want to use a card like Threatening Roar, I don't have to wait for something to chain it / respond to?

For instance if my opponent is looking through his hand and thinking about his options, I could just say "I activate threatening Roar." even though it wasn't in response to anything?

I guess I was always under the impression that I did. ^^;

Probably just because that's how the video games operate...

 

[Maruno]

This is all about priority. I'm a little hazy about the details, but from what I understand, once a chain has finished resolving, or a Normal Summon/Set has taken place, the turn player always has priority to activate another card effect (except Normal Spell Cards). That's why Exiled Force is so popular, because it can be Tributed immediately after it's Summoned for its effect, with no risk of having the opponent pull a Trap Hole on it or something.

The turn player always has priority (except when they declare an attack, I think). When the turn player chooses to end a Phase, they are passing their priority. The non-turn player (you) then gains priority to active a card or effect. That means you could indeed activate Threatening Roar out of nowhere, making it Chain Link 1 so it isn't actually activated in response to anything else.

When both the turn player and the non-turn player pass priority to start a new chain, then the Phase ends.

For instance if my opponent is looking through his hand and thinking about his options, I could just say "I activate threatoning Roar." even though it wasn't in response to anything?

I guess I was always under the impression that I did. ^^;

Probably just because that's how the video games operate...

So you can indeed just say "I activate Threatening Roar, or Call of the Haunted, or Survival Instinct, or whatever", without having to chain that card to something the turn player did.

However, the way you put it, while the turn player "is looking through his hand and thinking about his options", you CANNOT activate your Threatening Roar. That's because the turn player has priority. Only if the turn player says, "Well, I don't want to do anything else in this phase. How about you?" may you then proceed to activate Threatening Roar out of nowhere.

That's the only time (as far as I know) that the non-turn player can start doing things by themselves - at the end of a Phase. In the rest of the Phase, it's always the turn player who's doing something, and the non-turn player always responds to it.

 

[Duelmaster]

One simple rule don't base your rules or your ideas on the Video Games.

Because your opponent has priority to activate an effect first during a phase you should first ask your opponent if they want to activate something. If they don't you can activate Threathing Roar, and you can also chain it to a card (for example your opponent activates Heavy Storm you can than chain Threathing Roar.

 

[krishna]

Thank you Maruno, you explained that very well. I now understand that, by ending a phase, you are passing priority. This was something that never occured to me before, but it all makes sense. It was like the idea was there, but I just hadn't thought about it (if that makes sense)

Thanks for putting the idea with the thought. ^_^

 

[John Danker]

The turn player always has priority (except when they declare an attack, I think).

You've been explaining very well, this last question in your own mind though is actually reversed. The turn player has priority even when they attack to begin a chain. Just like a summon, an attack doesn't have a spell speed, therefore, the turn player retains priority to begin a chain even after the attack.

When both the turn player and the non-turn player pass priority to start a new chain, then the Phase ends.

This statement isn't quite correct, though many think it is. No step / phase ends until both players agree to move to the next step / phase.

Example:
P1 attacks with Gemini Elf and asks, "Do you have a response?"
P2 replies he has no response
(If what you said above were true then play would automatically move to the damage step...which it does not)
P1 activates Enemy Controller targeting P2's Zaborg
P2 chains Waboku

As you can see there can be multiple responses even AFTER both players pass their priority.

 

[krishna]

As you can see there can be multiple responses even AFTER both players pass their priority.

Does this mean that, if I was to have a card like Mystical Space Typhoon on the field, and I attack, passing my priority, and my opponent passes their priority, I can still go ahead and activate MST before the attack goes through?

 

[Maruno]

This statement isn't quite correct, though many think it is. No step / phase ends until both players agree to move to the next step / phase.

Example:
P1 attacks with Gemini Elf and asks, "Do you have a response?"
P2 replies he has no response
(If what you said above were true then play would automatically move to the damage step...which it does not)
P1 activates Enemy Controller targeting P2's Zaborg
P2 chains Waboku

As you can see there can be multiple responses even AFTER both players pass their priority.

Well, yes, I knew that, but I forgot to mention that it was already the end of the Phase, and that the progression isn't automatic. But successive passing of priority must happen before players decide to move on. Some can say it's practically the same thing. I do recognise the difference, though; my explanation just wasn't perfect.

Thanks for clarifying.

Does this mean that, if I was to have a card like Mystical Space Typhoon on the field, and I attack, passing my priority, and my opponent passes their priority, I can still go ahead and activate MST before the attack goes through?

Yes, you can.

Personally, I think it's a silly way to play. It sounds a lot like stalling, and attempting to pressure your opponent into activating cards prematurely, but there you go.

One point I'm not clear on, though: In krishna's situation (quoted), could the opponent chain to Mystical Space Typhoon with cards like Sakuretsu Armor? It is technically the first chain in the step, but is it still considered to be responding to the attack (where such cards can be activated), even though there was passing of priority?

 

[DarkLogicianOfCaos]

Let's Break down the Attack.

1. Enter Battle Phase: Look for Manditory Trigger effects; TP pass? Y; NTP pass? Y.
2. Declare attack (pick attacking and attacked): Look for Manditory Trigger effects; TP pass? Y; NTP pass? Y.
3. Attack initiates: Look for Manditory Effects that occur durring battle, but after attack declaration (so Maruno, at this point it is too late to activate Sakuretsu Armor); TP pass? Y; NTP pass? Y.
4. Enter Damage Step (Flip F/D Monsters Face Up), look for Manditory throughout damage Step, at this point, only Cards that +/- ATK/DEF or Counter Traps or specific timing cards can be activated durring this Step. TP first, then NTP building the chain accordingly. Then there are sub-steps within the damage step.

 

[krishna]

This raises a question I've been wondering about for a while (And forgot to ask)

If I declair an attack, and I activate one of my own cards in response, can my opponent still activate cards like Sakuretsu armor in response? In other words, if I know my opponent has Mirror Force of SA on the field, can I use this technique to get around it???

Say for instance I attack, and then activate Rising energy, discarding a card, to increase my monster's attack, would the timing still be correct for them to activate these cards?

 

[John Danker]

Yes the timing would still be correct, it's your opponent's first chance to respond to the attack declaration.

 

[krishna]

so there is nothing you can do to make it so that the oportunity to activate Mirror Force has passed? I could pay Lifepoints, discard, send a spell or trap card on my side of the field to the graveyard with Emergency Provisions, and they would always still have that chance, even though the last thing to happen was something other than an attack being declaired? Is it because all these things are costs?

 

[skey23]

so there is nothing you can do to make it so that the oportunity to activate Mirror Force has passed?

Yes, there is.

You declare your attack.
Pass priority to respond to your attack.
If your opponent passes back without activating anything, then you activate your "Rising Energy".
Your opponent cannot activate cards like "Sakuretsu Armor" or "Mirror Force" because the window for those cards has closed.

 

[krishna]

That makes a lot of sense.

And it sounds like a lot of fun to try out on people.

But just to make sure, since the example was about increasing attack, could I use something else, like Final Attack Orders and still get the same result?

Also, I thought the phase ends when both players passed priority once. If you say, "I end my main phase to enter my Battle phase." thus passing your priority to your opponent, and your opponent then passes their priority, the phase ends. Similarly with the End phase, you say "I end my turn." to pass your priority, and if your opponent passes their priority, then your turn ends. But, can you activate anything at that time, before your opponent's turn, even though you and your opponent have already passed priority?
Or what this: You are ending your Main Phase 2, and decide that during your end phase you want to activate something. Can you? Before your opponent does? (Even though you are "ending your turn" and therefore supposedly passing priority?)

 

[Maruno]

But just to make sure, since the example was about increasing attack, could I use something else, like Final Attack Orders and still get the same result?

Yes, you could use any card that you would be able to activate at the time.

Also, I thought the phase ends when both players passed priority once. If you say, "I end my main phase to enter my Battle phase." thus passing your priority to your opponent, and your opponent then passes their priority, the phase ends.

You've said you want to end your Main Phase. Your opponent says they don't want to do anything. This assumes they agree to end the Main Phase too, and so you do. Saying you don't want to do anything else, and saying you want to end a Phase/step, are two different things. You happen to have combined them in your statement there: "I want to end my Main Phase now and go on to my Battle Phase."

Similarly with the End phase, you say "I end my turn." to pass your priority, and if your opponent passes their priority, then your turn ends. But, can you activate anything at that time, before your opponent's turn, even though you and your opponent have already passed priority?

Saying you want to end your turn (end your End Phase) implies that you don't want to do anything else in your turn. So when you want to end your turn, and your opponent agrees, then your turn ends, and your opponent's Draw Phase begins immediately. There's no point between turns in which you can do anything. Once you end your End Phase, you'll have to wait until your opponent draws their card during their Draw Phase before doing anything else.

Or what this: You are ending your Main Phase 2, and decide that during your end phase you want to activate something. Can you? Before your opponent does? (Even though you are "ending your turn" and therefore supposedly passing priority?)

The End Phase is still a Phase, just like the Standby Phase or anything else. It is merely the last Phase of a turn, and is NOT the same as ending your turn.

When you enter a Phase or step, the turn player ALWAYS has priority to do something. So yes, you can activate your card first before your opponent gets a chance to.



You have to know the difference between passing priority and deciding to end a Phase/step. They're similar, but not the same thing. See the Battle Step for an example of this (responding to attack declaration with cards like Sakuretsu Armor or Negate Attack, and activating other cards like Enemy Controller or Survival Instinct).

 

[krishna]

I see!

"When you enter a Phase or step, the turn player ALWAYS has priority to do something. So yes, you can activate your card first before your opponent gets a chance to."

So in this case, can you enter your end phase, pass priority, and if your opponent passes priority as well, would it automaticaly end your turn, or could you still decide to activate something? I just want to be 100% sure on all of this...
With the knowlege that your opponent didn't want to activate something during your end phase, you might become inclined to activate something yourself.

 

[Maruno]

So in this case, can you enter your end phase, pass priority, and if your opponent passes priority as well, would it automaticaly end your turn, or could you still decide to activate something?

Passing priority in a Phase is NOT the same as saying you want to end that Phase. You can indeed pass priority, have your opponent pass priority, and then activate something.

In this game, Phase changes do NOT happen automatically. Just because you're not doing anything, doesn't mean the game says, "Right, let's go, move on." The players are playing the game, not the game itself.

 

[DarkLogicianOfCaos]

"When you enter a Phase or step, the turn player ALWAYS has priority to do something. So yes, you can activate your card first before your opponent gets a chance to."

That is almost completely correct. Now for the technicalities.

When, for instance, you enter your Main Phase 1 or 2, you (the TP) have Priority to activate Spell Speed 2, 3, or Monster ignition effects. That is, when you enter your Main Phase(s), you DO NOT have priority to activate a Spell Speed 1 Spell Card. This is very important to remember. (The same goes for that weird Spell Speed 1 card "Curse of Fiend" that for some oddball reason can only be activated during your Standby Phase-- that is also not part of Priority.)

A player's Priority can also be missed by automatic effects, this happens most often not in Phase changes, as much as in things like Summoning Monsters within a Main Phase, or during Battle. Normally the TP has priority then, but if what you are trying to do is negated ("Negate Attack", "Horn of Heaven", etc.) or for example, Stumbling is on the field, it overrides Priority as a Manditory Trigger effect (speaking of this, Ultimate Tyranno looks like it skips the Start Step of the Battle Phase....any objections to this?).

So you have the basics down, but it is essential to be wary of using such terms as "always" in this game, as there seems to be exceptions at every turn. Don't let it get to you though, this is where it gets fun. If everything was cut and dried, most of us would be out of a job, and some of us might even get bored with it.

 

[krishna]

Maruno, You're the greatest! I've been playing this game for so long, and since I've always had a lack of people around to play against, I've had to resort to the Video games, which sadly has gotten my brain used to a sertain way of playing. You've helped me to see things outside the video games. Although I always knew that things were played differently in the video games as opposed to face to face, I just didn't know how it was done. In Video games, once you and your opponent pass priority the phase is up. I'm glad to know that I can just say "I pass priority" or ask "Do you wish to activate something?" Rather than say, "I end my turn." and still have some kind of control over what's going on in my turn.

Again, thanks. You've liberated me!

Also, thanks DarkLogicianOfCaos and everyone else for your input.