What to do, oh what to do with these people.....

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roadhouse007

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Hello friends. It's been quite a while. Been really busy lately and probably won't be back for quite some time after getting some responses again, but there is a situation at my local tourney shop that is getting out of hand. I am going to post the SPECIFIC scenario that is the most recent, but this is not the first time this player has pulled this type of..........for lack of a better word, crap, before.

At tournament this week, a player claimed that Forced Back could negate flip effects when a monster was attacked and flipped face up, also causing a reset so the attacking monster could attack again. His exact words were "The ruling on forced back is broken.....you can (insert BS here).....isn't that awesome?"

All of the people with common sense came to a concensus with how it doesn't do that: That is nowhere near a summon. He then continued to argue "I read it on the Yugioh UDE website, you can check it right now if you want." We would have called the bluff, but lack of internet connection stopped that. We were able to prove, after a half hour argument and explaining simple game mechanics, why he was wrong. His response was still, after all that, "Fine......since noone believes me I guess I'll just let it go for now..........but I know I'm right."

Should we give this guy a final warning? And then what?
 
There's no point arguing the point with him. Simply ask him to bring a print out of the documentation and tell him you'll do the same. Since we both know how blatantly incorrect he is, there is no way he can ever provide the info, and he'll never bring it up again. If he brings falsified information, well then, you'll know what kind of person your dealing with and whether or not you want this kind of person participating in any future events.
 
I love those kind of people though! It's like they have some sort of "secret pipeline" to the "Fool your friends with this ruling" Website.

I mean, there's at least 2 or 3 people with this SAME excuse or argument at any event you go to. Do people actually think that this ploy works? I guess people think we are back in the early 90's where a computer was rare to be in "every" household, and even rarer that it would have internet connectivity. Or, maybe they think we are even further back like the 1800's, where people dropped out of Grade School to work the farm and support the family, so they cant read very well.

If that argument doesnt work, they just resort to saying "My Level 4 Judge friend told me...." Oddly enough, that individual doesnt seem to ever be around much, nor go to many events you might happen to "see" someone of such "high" level at, and when you call them on the fact that there arent any Level 4 Judges, they default back to seeing it on this "Phantom" Website that has the same three letters closely resembling U D E.
 
masterwoo0 said:
If that argument doesnt work, they just resort to saying "My Level 4 Judge friend told me...."
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The most hilarious guys are the ones that tell you about their Level 5 Judge friend.
OR even better, the guys with the Level X Judge friend (where X is higher than 5. *LOL*).

But, well. I would make a final ruling in the situation and tell him that he can discuss after the tournament about the situation. There's no time to discuss for years during or in between rounds, all players would have to wait for _ONE_ guy and that's almost never OK.

Away from that, refer to DJ's post, that's a good round-up. :)

soul :cool:
 
roadhouse007 said:
Should we give this guy a final warning? And then what?
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if this guy has been give warnings throughout the tournement of the same kind they should eventually be given a final warning!!!
 
Basically, what you have to decide is, does he actually believe he saw something we know isnt correct. He may very well have been to a less reputable Yugioh Forum that has one of those "Level 4 Judges", that is irresponsibly dispensing erroneous rulings to the masses, and for his efforts, no one questions him.

It's conceivable that that individual is only quoting information he read, that was a supposed "quote" from Upper Deck FAQ.

Yes, I know it's irritating to follow-up on these type of crank call rulings, but you have to get this guy to see that he cant just go by what he thinks to be true, without knowing if it is a credible source.

If he's honestly just a victim of misplaced loyalty, then you have to set him straight and he'll apprecitate it. If he is actually a Scammer, then no amount of show and tell is going to work, and only through stiff Warnings can he be convinced to stop.
 
Then you have the guys who are just thick, and believe the first thing they read as if it's law. It's sad, but often happens. Its important to verify what you read and not always take it at face value.
 
rules of beign a judge is:

If you are playing you arnt a judge since at the current time you are playing you arnt considered a judge and so your word means nothing. You arnt Judging you are playing.

If you are a judge, Your word can be overruled by the Head Judge if the player appeals to your ruling.

Case in point... Tell the person that if they are a judge that their word means nothing when playing they arnt considered judges at the time. If they wish to appeal to the Head Judge then so be it.

basically the person that should put this player in their place is the head judge.

I've gotten cheated out becuase of the whole, "you arnt a judge your a player" situation here, and you know what its understandable becuase there are player around that cry out, outragous rulings.

the funny thing is that they sided with the guy that was incorrect. Where was the head judge? i dont know. and since its long way since then, i dont care. I know i was right.
 
Then there are those people who don't read the text on the card. "If my opponent tributes his sangan for jinzo, does he get sangan's effect" (courtesy of a ft worth regional player). He asked me, then asked for a 2nd opionion, then appealed both of our judgements to the head judge. Of course, me and all the judges were right.There is a reason why we are judges and wear the trend setting black and white shirts.
 
It's always been my experience that players who will argue to that degree regardless of the evidence shown to the contrary aren't going to stop *****ing until they get their way.

Normally I'll issue a warning and if it happens again a match loss. A third time a full Disqualification.

I've only ever had to do that once. I didn't like it, I never like handing out warnings let alone full DQ's.

The general rule is, what the Judge says goes, if you don't like it that's too bad, look it up on the site later and if need be contact one of the lead judges, NEVER argue with the judge/co-ordinator.


duelistcp76 said:
There is a reason why we are judges and wear the trend setting black and white shirts.
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I need to get one of those shirts, I'd like to avoid pulling out my UDE ID card when the seasonal influx of new players show up.
 
Phantom6 said:
It's always been my experience that players who will argue to that degree regardless of the evidence shown to the contrary aren't going to stop *****ing until they get their way.

Normally I'll issue a warning and if it happens again a match loss. A third time a full Disqualification.

I've only ever had to do that once. I didn't like it, I never like handing out warnings let alone full DQ's.

The general rule is, what the Judge says goes, if you don't like it that's too bad, look it up on the site later and if need be contact one of the lead judges, NEVER argue with the judge/co-ordinator.




I need to get one of those shirts, I'd like to avoid pulling out my UDE ID card when the seasonal influx of new players show up.
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actually as a normal judge anything not the floor head judge a player can appeal to your ruling.

the final word comes from the Head Judge if the player choose to appeal the normal Judge's word.

While yes the judge is still a judge by no means does his word overrule the Floor's Head Judge.

If i were in that scenario, (and trust me i know people that have done this) and a normal judge DQ's me without Prize i will start trowing tables and cause a riot.

1. it costs alot of money to enter events.
2. for just any judge to issue a DQ w/o prize at any point in time is rediculous.
3. If you were in the player seat you wouldnt like it.

thats how i see it when i judge, i put my self in the players shoes, if a player wishes to appeal to my ruling, then so be it, send over the Head Judge to clarify and give the final word, after this, If the player goes out of control then DQ w/o prize. but just a Judge Vs. Player issue is really too aggressive to go that overboard.
 
Phantom6:

That's why Ronin is out and should be on a computer at every place running a tournament. RONIN mirrors Ude's site but with easier access, you don't even need to be online. You have to be careful with those DQ's. As krazykidpsx said, I don't think many players would be happy with a dq. Not only that. The DQ has to be recorded and a valid reason given.
 
duelistcp76 said:
Phantom6:

That's why Ronin is out and should be on a computer at every place running a tournament. RONIN mirrors Ude's site but with easier access, you don't even need to be online. You have to be careful with those DQ's. As krazykidpsx said, I don't think many players would be happy with a dq. Not only that. The DQ has to be recorded and a valid reason given.
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Recording a DQ is the least thing to worry about. If it gets to that point, the major concern is what is the player doing to aggravate the situation. Players should know that they are not in a position to demand their way in a Tourney.

Sure, there are going to be some calls players do not agree with, and some that are certainly bad, and while that is unfortunate, there are no immediate remedies for the occasional "bad call that got away". You see it happen everywhere, no matter how schooled you are in the game, and Yugioh is not the only place where perfection is the desired outcome, but not so easily attainable, and I doubt that anytime soon they are going to institute "Instant Replay".

Some places, the Floor Judge is the ONLY Judge, and is fully qualified to issue a DQ if necessary. Tossing tables isnt the answer, especially if you dont have many other places to play at once you get Banned from returning. If you're in a "No Win" situation with a Judge, you need to weigh your options.
 
yea but in that case its not a major event, if anything thats a hobby league event.

cause from my understanding they have about 10 judges in major events like SJC and Regionals.

so, if at a regional or sjc something like that happend, you better belive you would see people mad.

heck I know somebody that got that mad, but thats cause the TO and that perticular group have beef with each other, but thats a whole other issue.
 
krazykidpsx said:
yea but in that case its not a major event, if anything thats a hobby league event.

cause from my understanding they have about 10 judges in major events like SJC and Regionals.

so, if at a regional or sjc something like that happend, you better belive you would see people mad.

heck I know somebody that got that mad, but thats cause the TO and that perticular group have beef with each other, but thats a whole other issue.
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Something like that would never happen at a Major Event. That would be WAYYY beyond the average Floor Judges Level to issue a DQ without the Head Judge's knowledge. In the event a situation were to be elevated to that case, there would be a consultation with the HJ, and he would make the final determination. All a Floor Judge can do is "recommend" a DQ, since the Head Judge is usually removed from the floor, and would not be in a position to catch all that transpired until being briefed by said Floor Judge.
 
This happened at a hobby shop. Which, sadly, usually means I'm to Only Judge making me by default the head judge.
 
masterwoo0 said:
Something like that would never happen at a Major Event. That would be WAYYY beyond the average Floor Judges Level to issue a DQ without the Head Judge's knowledge. In the event a situation were to be elevated to that case, there would be a consultation with the HJ, and he would make the final determination. All a Floor Judge can do is "recommend" a DQ, since the Head Judge is usually removed from the floor, and would not be in a position to catch all that transpired until being briefed by said Floor Judge.
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like i said i know somebody that got that mad and did that and got DQ W/o Prize in round 1.

but i also stated that, its beef beetween them and the TO and this was for VS not yugi. but thats a totally different issue.
 
Phantom6 said:
This happened at a hobby shop. Which, sadly, usually means I'm to Only Judge making me by default the head judge.
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yea, thats different though, at a mini-event like that its you who makes the call cause its just you alone. and its your judgement. but You should have a way to get some rulings incase stuff like this happend.
 
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