XYZ-Dragon Cannon problem

[woltarr]

i found a curious quote in UDe FAQ

look

" Dimension Fusion" can Special Summon "XYZ-Dragon Cannon" if it was Special Summoned properly first.


it is an example of the rules bishop and the judges will review?

as far as i know, "XYZ dragon cannon" should follow the same special summon restriction that the other XYZ fusion creatures follow isn't that correct?

any input will be appreciated

woltarr

 

[masterwoo0]

I think this is one of those rulings where the Jury is still out on.  I really cant see the purpose of putting a "hypothetical" ruling out there if there is really no way to perform the action. 

I definitely see this one getting a proper review as it can have a BIG effect on the game by opening up new possibilities of summoning. And, while they are "Fusion" Monsters, they really arent "Fusion" Summoned, since it actually says on the card that they are a Special Summon.

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

Oh yes that rule is true.

But XYZ-Dragon Cannon is NEVER properly special summoned. To special summon a Fusion Monster properly, you must Fusion Summon it. XYZ is not fusion summoned--never special summoned properly--and can not be special summoned from the Graveyard or the Removed from Play pile.

Always look at the If part of a sentence first, and in the event it is false ignore the rest of the sentence.

E.g Q: How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
A: Woodchucks don't chuck wood.

Q: How many XYZs wil a duelist return from the D.D. if the XYZs were special summoned properly?
A: XYZs are not summoned properly

(there's nothing wrong with the questions in either case, "IF" is just tricky)

 

[masterwoo0]

I would have to say that you could use the "Woodchuck" scenario on quite a few instances other than the XYZ's, but until there is something more definite and dare I say, "Updated", I think that any plausible reason as to why or why its not a special summon is still, opinion.

At this date, we have been told that translations have not always been correct from the Japanese Game to American.  Could it be possible that this is one of those circumstances?

As we understand the ruling now, you can never properly "fuse" an XYZ Family Monster.  So since it will never be a Fusion Summon, nor a Normal Summon, the only choice left is Special.  Since it can only be a Special Summon, this is where the water gets muddy.  The theory we have for the actual summon lies in the fact that since it cant be fused, it can only be summoned by removing the component parts from play.

Once this is accomplished, it also stands to reason that it is neither properly fusion summoned, since it didnt use Fusion Gate or Polymerization, and it is not properly Special Summoned, since it is a Fusion Monster that cannot be Fusion Summoned (which is ALSO a Special Summon).

So is it that we are not reading the "Implied" text?  "This monster can only be Special Summoned (since it cant be fused) from the Fusion Deck, by removing...."  Because a Fusion Monster regardless of how its summoned is always under the classification of a Special Summon.

 

[Raijinili]

Oh yes that rule is true.

But XYZ-Dragon Cannon is NEVER properly special summoned. To special summon a Fusion Monster properly, you must Fusion Summon it. XYZ is not fusion summoned--never special summoned properly--and can not be special summoned from the Graveyard or the Removed from Play pile.

Always look at the If part of a sentence first, and in the event it is false ignore the rest of the sentence.

E.g Q: How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
A: Woodchucks don't chuck wood.

Q: How many XYZs wil a duelist return from the D.D. if the XYZs were special summoned properly?
A: XYZs are not summoned properly

(there's nothing wrong with the questions in either case, "IF" is just tricky)

But you are assuming the woodchuck could chuck wood.

Now who's buried in Grant's tomb?

And what color was George Washington's favorite white horse?

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

But you are assuming the woodchuck could chuck wood.

No I'm not.  "IF" does not mean "assuming that."  You read the IF part if its true proceed, if its false stop.

" Dimension Fusion" can Special Summon "XYZ-Dragon Cannon" if ("XYZ-Dragon Cannon") was Special Summoned properly first.

Look at the If part fist.  How do you specials summon XYZ properly.. well let's read that same FAQ:

XYZ FUSION MONSTERS 

The following rules apply to "XYZ-Dragon Cannon", "YZ-Tank Dragon", "XY-Dragon Cannon", and "XZ-Tank Cannon".

You cannot Fusion Summon these monsters with "Polymerization" or "Fusion Gate", so it is impossible to Summon these monsters "properly".

So XYZ is not a Nomi monster, it just can't be properly summoned.  Perhaps one day there will be a card that will allow it to be summoned by fusion summon, then it will be able to be reborned or returned from the D.D.

I hear that a VWXYZ Dragon was used in the new Yu-G-Oh... if that's released maybe along side it will be a Card to Fusion Summon those monster.

 

[n00b]

If the hypothetical is impossible, then there is no point in having the ruling at all unless your intent is to confuse people, mess up rulings at tournaments, and possibly cheat someone out of a win at a major tournament. The ruling infers that XYZ-Dragon Cannon can be properly summoned. Either way you look at it, the ruling is wrong or misleading.

 

[Raijinili]

But you are assuming the woodchuck could chuck wood.

No I'm not. "IF" does not mean "assuming that." You read the IF part if its true proceed, if its false stop.

" Dimension Fusion" can Special Summon "XYZ-Dragon Cannon" if ("XYZ-Dragon Cannon") was Special Summoned properly first.

In the XYZ example, you assume that the monster was properly summoned. This can still be a true statement, if the monster had the ABILITY to be properly summoned.

On the other hand, you already assume the woodchuck had the ABILITY to chuck wood.

 

[somewan]

Wow, almost a month exactly to bring up the same topic...

(http://nforums.netrep.net/index.php/topic,166.15.html)

And no doubt, we will end up with the same resolution until UDE can clarify...

Though I encourage re-visiting topics that may not have resolved, I also support the search function available in the forums... :roll:

Still, the best answer I've heard so far is ask the head judge before the event to find out how they will rule things like this...

However, these forums are set up so we can all have a place to discuss these things, so....

carry on...

 

[Dlanaan]

Going a little further with this and saying if you want to add anything, do so in the topic somewan linked to. This one is locked.