2 questions??

[Melchiah76]

ok, ppl...here r my doubts.

1.- when a card has in its text the word "succesfully" (as with the monarchs) , how do you determine the succesfullness (i think i misspelled the word XP) in the case. i mean, if i was to tribute summon, lets say, mobius the frost monarch, a non-succesfull scenario would be if my oponent started a chain with bottomless/trap hole?...in that case, mobius woud be un-succeflully summoned?..please let me know the succefull or not succefull scenarios (men, im gonna love the success!!)

2.- another question is about morphing jar#2 (i know that a lot has been talked about with this card, but, please bear with me, ppl, i live in a place where NOT all people can read or talk english). in the card text says that when its fliped, you shuffle your monsters back into the deck, so, if my oponent was to have 4 monsters, and i was to have a morphing jar#2 face down, and i snatched steal a monster from my oponent. and in his battle phase he attacked my morphing jar #2 and destroys it, all monsters in the field are going to go to his deck (except morphing, thats for sure), but, when applying morphing jar´s effect, he has to put 4 monsters and i dont, or i have to put 1 monsters, even though i didn't shiffle any monsters into my deck??....any help whould be greatly appreciated.

 

[Good_Guy2.0]

1. In the case of mobious he is succesfully summoned. its his succesful summoning that allows for Bottomless Trap Hole to be activated. Although Mobius's effect gains priority when he is summoned which means you use his effect destroying 2 spell or trap cards.

2. Wth Morphing Jar #2 you pick up the amount of cards equal to the amount monsters returned to your deck. Since his monster equipped with Snatch Steal returned to his deck he gets to pick up the card.

 

[densetsu_x]

1) Real easy. If the summon isn't negated by Horn of Heaven, Solemn Judgment, or Royal Oppression (for the case of Special Summons only), then it is considered "Successfully summoned". Doesn't matter if the monster is Torrential-ed, or (Bottomless) Trap Holed, etc. By the time those cards can be activated that means the monster was successfully summoned. So in the case of the Monarchs they would still get the effects.

2) If Morphing Jar #2 is flipped and destroyed as a result of battle, he will not be included among the monsters returned to your deck. Any monsters of your opponent that you control (by Snatch Steal or Creature Swap) are returned to his deck and count towards the number of monsters he is supposed to bring to the field.

 

[Big Oldprankster]

1. Your example of activating Bottomless Trap Hole to the summon of Mobius is incorrect. You can not chain to summoning of the monster. Mobius is in fact successfully summoned. His effect would happen or could be chained to with the BTH. If the monster is summoned it is considered successfully summoned. Horn of Heaven would be an example of unsuccessfully summoning the monster.

2. The monster equipped with Snatch Steal would return to opponents deck and he /she would then have to pick up cards equal to the number of monsters he put back in his deck.

I wish I could type faster!!! Denestsu X has got it right.

 

[Dragon Reaver]

So what happens if i have my f/d #2 and one of my opps mon. and he atks my #2 while having 5 mons, would they stop once they have 5, or would they have to get a 6th and just discard it, or something else all togeather?

 

[skey23]

So what happens if i have my f/d #2 and one of my opps mon. and he atks my #2 while having 5 mons, would they stop once they have 5, or would they have to get a 6th and just discard it, or something else all togeather?

They would still attempt to find all 6 monsters. If they have no room for the 6th one, then it would be sent to the Graveyard instead of being special summoned.

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

I believe that the 6th one goes to the graveyard no matter what. You may only special summon among the 1st 5...

(i.e they all attempt to be summoned at the same time, so even if some of the first 5 can't be special summoned by MJ#2 they will take up one space at that very moment and will block number 6th from trying to find a space, the ones that can't be special summoned and #6 will be destroyed at the same time)

 

[Melchiah76]

thank's u guys on the monarch thingie...i had it all wrong.

now, on the Morphing Jar....i understand that the effect is considering how much monsters were shuffled back into each deck right??...so if my oponent fliped face up his MJ#2 and i had 4 sheep tokens, he would shuffle back MJ#2 back in his deck and i , having no monsters to return to the deck, do what??..i understand that the sheep tokens go to the graveyard, but i dont pick up cards, right??

 

[Chillout1984]

thank's u guys on the monarch thingie...i had it all wrong.

now, on the Morphing Jar....i understand that the effect is considering how much monsters were shuffled back into each deck right??...so if my oponent fliped face up his MJ#2 and i had 4 sheep tokens, he would shuffle back MJ#2 back in his deck and i , having no monsters to return to the deck, do what??..i understand that the sheep tokens go to the graveyard, but i dont pick up cards, right??

Sheep tokens don't go to the graveyard, they just "vanish".

But indeed: your opponent picks up cards until he gets 1 monster and you don't pick up any cards at all.

 

[Melchiah76]

Sheep tokens don't go to the graveyard, they just "vanish".

But indeed: your opponent picks up cards until he gets 1 monster and you don't pick up any cards at all.

thank you all, ppl...now i can print this to show 2 or 3 people that where a bit wrong on the rulings (including myself).

and chillout1984, i was afraid to use the term ''vanish'', but, yeah, i know that they get send to sheep limbo (mmm...maybe a place where the devils are a pack of farmers that trim their whool, and the whool never gets short, and they do that for all of eternity.....but, hey, maybe it's me XP!!)

 

[krazykidpsx]

i thought the effect only counter the monsters on the field.

since you arnt allowed to return an opponents monster to your deck you have to return it to theirs.
"
FLIP: Return all Monster Cards on the field to their respective Decks and shuffle them. You and your opponent then pick up cards until you both have the same number of Monster Cards that were returned to each Deck. Special Summon the Level 4 or lower monsters to the field in face-down Defense Position. The rest of the cards picked up are discarded to the Graveyard. "

okay lets see here were all going the reason why opponent has to summon odd numbers is because a monster on your side of the field had to go to their deck. so you return nothing, but you initially would have to since there was a monster on your field that could have returned to your deck.

so lets see, if i return nothing becuase of game mechanic does that fizzle the effect for me? why does konami do other wise on DOD and every newley released game with MJ2?

also, the cards picked up, are they considered discarded from your hand or from the deck?

I ask this because of Magical Thorn.


and also lets say by mean dumb luck they have 5 cards on their field and they have to look for a 6th's card, they have a Night Assailant in the graveyard already.

lets say if they pick up a night assialant and there is only 1 night assialant in their graveyard wouldnt that cause an infinite loop persey (if its the only monster in their graveyard)?

how would all of this work?, is basically what im asking.

 

[Digital Jedi]

i thought the effect only counter the monsters on the field.

since you arnt allowed to return an opponents monster to your deck you have to return it to theirs.
"
FLIP: Return all Monster Cards on the field to their respective Decks and shuffle them. You and your opponent then pick up cards until you both have the same number of Monster Cards that were returned to each Deck. Special Summon the Level 4 or lower monsters to the field in face-down Defense Position. The rest of the cards picked up are discarded to the Graveyard. "

okay lets see here were all going the reason why opponent has to summon odd numbers is because a monster on your side of the field had to go to their deck. so you return nothing, but you initially would have to since there was a monster on your field that could have returned to your deck.

Nope. You only Special Summon as many monsters as were returned to your deck. Not the same number that was on your side of the field.

so lets see, if i return nothing becuase of game mechanic does that fizzle the effect for me? why does konami do other wise on DOD and every newley released game with MJ2?

If you had no monsters returned to your deck then you draw nothing. It's always been played this way.

also, the cards picked up, are they considered discarded from your hand or from the deck?
I ask this because of Magical Thorn.

Picked-up. So Thorn wont do it.

and also lets say by mean dumb luck they have 5 cards on their field and they have to look for a 6th's card, they have a Night Assailant in the graveyard already.

lets say if they pick up a night assialant and there is only 1 night assialant in their graveyard wouldnt that cause an infinite loop persey (if its the only monster in their graveyard)?

I don't see where an Infinite Loop would even occur. First off Night Assailant is never considered to be in your hand so you wouldn't get his effect. But even if you did, all you'd get is another Flip Effect monster from your Graveyard. Even if its a Night Assailant, you'd only get him once. No loops involved.

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

i thought the effect only counter the monsters on the field.

It counts the monsters returned to the deck, not the monsters on the field.

so lets see, if i return nothing becuase of game mechanic does that fizzle the effect for me? why does konami do other wise on DOD and every newley released game with MJ2?

It doesn't fizzle, you've already reached your target of 0 monsters so you do not need to pick up anymore cards.

Konami Electronics is a different Konami altogether, you can't compare their rules to the TCG nor OCG.

also, the cards picked up, are they considered discarded from your hand or from the deck?

From the deck.

 

[krazykidpsx]

okay so their considered discard from the deck no from some magical place that nobody ever heard about.



that works everything out. but we should get some more rulings on MJ2 because the few rules known to public just doesnt cut it.