40 or 41

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While it does have a statistical significance, in certain decks, it may not have a practical significance.

So to not answer your question....

yes...

and no... ;)
 
40 vs 41 doesn't make any significant difference towards drawing the one card you need.

however when it comes to 2 or more cards than your chances decrease exponentially of getting those cards.

But this can also work to your advantage with certain cards. (E.g. its very bad to draw 2 or more Nimble Momongas, as they cannot special summon themselves from the hand, having 43 cards in a deck that uses self-replacing monster will drastically reduce the amount of times that you will draw 2 Nimble Momongas in your first 6 cards.)
 
to me i think its all up to lady luck unless its a 45 card deck or more, only cuz almost everbody and there mother runs somekind of searcher which will almost always get something they want or can use
 
I believe that the general concensus is no, one card probably doesn't matter.

(when I was an incredible noob, though, I thought that I could get away with adding an extra card to the deck for every drawing or searching card I had; i now know the evils of my old ways, lol)

p.s. how is it that this topic had 3 replies, but only 1 view?
 
No, I don't belive it does. I believe structure has absolutly everything to do with whether you will draw what you need and that card counts right at 40 are a fallacy created by early gamers and are statistical nonsense. If you have a deck of 39 non-playable cards and one cards that says "I win", then you can't hope to ever p0ull that card when you will really need it. If you have a deck of 50 cards, where 47 of those cards interact with each other to help you draw the three cards that say, "you win the game if you have fifty cards in your deck and Graveyard combined", then suddenly 40 cards is doing nothing to increase your odds of winning? It's all in the structure.
 
check this out, you guys think it doesnt matter.

try this out.

make a 40 cards deck, and by accident pull out a non-"staple" I bet you anything, you will always most certainly pull what you need when you need it.

and itll all be becuase of that 1 card.

now why does this work you say and why is it different, becuse 40 is a even number and 39 is most defently not.

see it may not seem like anything but, When you split a deck 50/50 that means you have a 50/50 chance of getting the card you need, now that is not completly true becuase that leaves the fact that you might not get the card you need at the time you need it.

so try 41, what does 41 do? oh thats easy, divide it by 2 and see what happens, its an odd number so you most defently pull a odd 21.5 number. which you cant split a card in half, so what happens.

you run 19 creatures, what does this mean? that you have a high chance of getting creatures, thats all not a certain creature. just a creautre in general, then becuase you cannot make a even number you will use 2 odd numbers to make your even, which then turns to 22.

22 spell and traps which essentially can devide evently 50/50

11/11/19

what does that all mean you say, well that means that the only difference beetween spell / traps/ monsters is essentially only 3 cards.

meaning your hand can come up spell/spell/trap/creature/creature/spell

that would be your oppening and draw. and you wont worry about not having back up.

when you go even though, sometimes it goes a bit off course, not always but sometimes.

Ive been using 41 for the longest time becuase when you shuffle up odd numbers are beyond better than even.

think about it.

If you have 20 creature, 10 spells, and 10 traps

C
SC
TSC
CTSC
SCTS
TSCT
TSC
TS
T

That is basically how it looks when you shuffle it. but with odd numbers it is more random and see to work and less chances of getting stuck with clumps.

so does 1 card make the difference? when you shuffle yes, it does alot. will it mean you get close to getting what you want, possibly not. but with tutors and stuff you basically thin you deck out and get what you need when you need. :)
 
So it also depends on your Monster, Spell, and Trap Ratios as well? Right now my Deck is 15/17/8.
 
it depends on how far your games progress, late game that 1 extra card can matter, early game not so much as you aren't losing that much in terms of probablility. I tested this concept a while back on YVD with 42-45 cards in a beast aggro while playing very aggressively, the deck won if the games were short and lost if the games were long (long as in where 1-5 extra cards add a significant amount to your probabilities).

Now in YGO, there are tutors and what not, if you run alot of searchers RotA, Tomato, Sangan, etc. you can afford to run a litte more of whatever you can search for in this case creatures.

At any given time in YGO, the chances of you drawing a single card whether you need it or not is X/(N-S-T-5) where X is number of copies of the card you have in your deck, N is the total number of cards, S is the number of cards you have searched/discarded out of your deck and T is number of turns passed.
Let's say you ran 40 cards in your deck and after 15 turns (assuming you get off a Sangan and a Tomato) and is now looking for Call of the Haunted:
1/(40-2-15-5) = 0.0555 so about 5.5 percent to draw call on your next draw.
Same scenario with 41:
1/(41-2-15-5) = 0.0526 so about 5.2 percent to draw call.
Same with 45:
1/(45-2-15-5) = 0.0435 so about 4.3 percent to draw call.

Now you decide if those differences are significant to you as a player or not. Of course like I stated above, if you get into the late game, the differences in percent increases inversely to number of cards you originally had in your deck.

Also, what Digital Jedi says is true for YGO. But the concept is why rely on more cards than you have to? If you can win with 40 cards why win with 50?
 
well 40 is the based minimum. so hence forth you need atleast 40. not to mention when you lose a card off a 41 card deck you still are legal.

i seen many cases where players inadvertantly forget about 1 card they removed from the game. if the deck is 40 even then the deck is illegal if its 41 the deck is legal and the game continues.

and trust me you think 1 card wont trow your game off you dont know how bad it does sometimes.
 
Everyone has a different opinion about 40 card decks and decks with more than 40 cards in. Ratios and all that play a large part to. It all depends in the type of deck you want. I have found if you intend to run 3 of a particular type of card in a deck, 40 cards mean you are far more likely to draw 2 of them very close together and maybe draw those in your hand on your first go, where as running a few more means you have other options to work with, but less chance of pulling a particular card. Thats where drawing and searching does help. Any card that lets you search through your deck is always a huge bonus as it thins your deck and pulls out the card you need, There are many that help in terms of extra draws and what I like to call Specific Card Pulls. You make your luck on the type of deck you build, adding in extra drawing and search options means the odds of getting that one card you want have gone more in your favour.
 
Judicator said:
Also, what Digital Jedi says is true for YGO. But the concept is why rely on more cards than you have to? If you can win with 40 cards why win with 50?
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Why win with a Cyber Dragon Deck when you can win with a Fire Deck? Because one deck is one way to win and one deck is another. Because onw ay is something that you've tried and the other way is something that you haven't. It isn't about whether one is a better idea then the other. It's about the fact that it's still possible both ways.
 
Ok I did some testing in Deck Studio. The more copy of the card increases your chance of actually getting it when you need it. Having an even number works when you are relying mostly on drawing the cards you need instead of using searchers. At least that is how I view it. It also depends on what type of cards are in your Deck at the time. I am going to stick to 40 no matter what. But it also depends on the ratios you use for your Monsters, Spell, and Traps.
 
As far as I'm concerned (in most cases):

Does it matter to have more than 40 cards? NO
Does it matter to have more than 41 cards? NO
Does it matter to have more than 42 cards? YES

I draw on personal experience when it comes to this one. I was running 43 cards in my Burn deck for the longest time. It did okay, but it was horribly inconsistent. Then I went down to 42 and I was winning more often.

As long as you don't go above 42, you should be okay.
 
Tiso said:
Ok I did some testing in Deck Studio. The more copy of the card increases your chance of actually getting it when you need it. Having an even number works when you are relying mostly on drawing the cards you need instead of using searchers. At least that is how I view it. It also depends on what type of cards are in your Deck at the time. I am going to stick to 40 no matter what. But it also depends on the ratios you use for your Monsters, Spell, and Traps.
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Yes thats a good point, while increasing copies of the card may help your chances of drawing it, however, as we all know its about drawing a card that fits the situation, and there are only so many cards that are versatile like that, Breaker comes to mind for me for a versatile card.
 
well if you live with that then oviously.

in my Gadget/TER control deck i dont even use Breaker and it does tremendesly well.

put it this way, every game if it werent for Pot of Avarice i would deck out.

but in a deck like that Pot of Avarice is very usefull. :)
 
42. I tried 40 but it didn't work for me. When I fixed my deck, I ended up taking out 3 and adding 5. Didn't plan it, but the 42 card build works for me. The question is: Do I really want to play this card in the deck, giving me less of a chance of drawing a certain card by 1 but adding this card I think will help my deck in the long run?

In the end, it's all personal preference. I play Rush Recklessly, which is a -1 in most peoples eyes. For me, it ends up a 1 for 1, or 1 for 2.

Rush Recklessly being 1 for 2. Let me explain. I have a Don Zaloog in attack position and a rush face down. My opponent summons a Blade Knight and attacks with 2 cards in hand. I activate rush during damage step, discard a card from their hand, destroy their Blade Knight, and deal 500 damage to them. Giggidy Giggidy, Giddidy Goo.
 
Every card over the 40 minimum will slow down the deck; as for how much is slows it down the degree is by card; so most of you are correct 41 does not slow the deck down significantly but 49 would. Best way to measure the slow down is through an Exodia deck and probabilities in drawing all 5 Exodia pieces by turn 1; then turn 2. The reason I use Exodia is the probabilities are easily measured. Yes, I know different decks do different things and win different ways and someone else could post a dark world deck or burn deck with different probabilities based on card needs; however they won't take into account the other variables that Exodia does not. Each variable alters the probabilities. Then of course there is always luck (which is mathematically defined as overcoming probability, like drawing all 5 Exodia pieces by turn 3...). And last but not least there is the other person across the table from you who is also trying to alter your probabilities too.
 
The Advocate said:
Every card over the 40 minimum will slow down the deck; as for how much is slows it down the degree is by card; so most of you are correct 41 does not slow the deck down significantly but 49 would. Best way to measure the slow down is through an Exodia deck and probabilities in drawing all 5 Exodia pieces by turn 1; then turn 2. The reason I use Exodia is the probabilities are easily measured. Yes, I know different decks do different things and win different ways and someone else could post a dark world deck or burn deck with different probabilities based on card needs; however they won't take into account the other variables that Exodia does not. Each variable alters the probabilities. Then of course there is always luck (which is mathematically defined as overcoming probability, like drawing all 5 Exodia pieces by turn 3...). And last but not least there is the other person across the table from you who is also trying to alter your probabilities too.
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I completely agree. Probability is the most important component in any trading card game whether it is MTG, Versus, or Yugioh. It does not matter how many good cards you have in your deck, but if the your hand is frequently being disrupted you probably will have no hand which leaves very little chances of a strategy. If you draw the same card, or your deck has too many cards it can be quite troublesome mainly by slowing down your odds of drawing good cards from your deck. Generally you should have a deck at the base minimum, however I've seen some specialized decks in MTG that run 200 card decks.
 
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