About Bait Doll

A

antilegend

New Member
Bait Doll
(Labyrinth of Nightmare)
Force the activation of 1 face-down Trap Card. If the timing of the activation of the Trap Card is incorrect, negate the effect and destroy it. If it is not a Trap Card, it is returned to its original position. After this card is activated, it is placed into the Deck (not the Graveyard). Then shuffle the Deck.

1) If Bait Doll did not force the activation of a card (the card is chained, destroyed by MST, etc.), did it return to the deck?
2) You can activate Bait Doll on YOUR OWN trap card so you don't have to pay the cost, right? (e.g. Return from the Other Dimension)
3) If you activate Bait Doll on a face-up Trap card that is set previously in the same turn (e.g. Opponent's Trap set by Dust Turnado or you own Trap set previously), will it be considered "Incorrect Timing" and get destroyed?

Thx for the answers~
 
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Dang it, had a whole post typed up and then I just HAD to execute a Javascript prompt...

I'll try to cover the basics.
anthonyj said:
Okay. More backpeddling from UDE. I'm truly fine with however Konami decides to go with this. I feel that there is a huge difference between "activation requirement" as per the examples I provided, and "activation cost" such as the actual tribute of a monster, paying life points, etc.
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You spelled "backpedalling" wrong (one too many misspellings for me to keep quiet), Steve isn't UDE (Netreps don't get paid), and Fiendish Envoy got that reply for a PERSONAl query.

anthonyj said:
If Steve is wavering on what he "meant" with his statement it really isn't going to matter much how we "define" "activation requirement" anyway.
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I wouldn't say "waver".
Raijinili: But in your e-mail, did you sacrifice the four monsters, or did you just need them on the field?
Steve: i'm assuming that you would pay the activation cost and tribute the monsters
anthonyj said:
But then again I would feel he completely missed answering the question at all since Curtis had already told us that Bait Doll does not "require" the payment of the "activation cost" when the trap is targeted, to pay the cost then would require chaining the trap to Bait Doll not waiting to be force activated by Bait Doll so why make a statement like he did?
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*insert somewhat clever statement about how Steve is trying to make my life harder*
anthonyj said:
I simply can't imagine why this is so hard for UDE to answer as you would think this would be a simple yes or no from Konami on whether Bait Doll was meant to be able to activate traps without the cost having to be paid. But then again I'm not the one with more than 550 things on a list to get answered eventually.
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*insert joke about UDE's weakness against Konami*

*insert joke about Konami hating us/UDE*
masterwoo0 said:
something. Yes, he definitely did
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The possible interpretations of the e-mail, or the theories on the ruling?

1) Bait Doll always destroys Elemental Burst.
2) Bait Doll activates Elemental Burst without it paying the cost if the monsters are there.
3) Bait Doll activates Elemental Burst by forcing the cost.
 
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Answer!

Subject: Bait Doll - activation costs - ruling revision
From: Dani Filth <synnr666@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:52:55 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 5

So does that mean if my opponent activates Bait Doll on my face-down Solemn Judgement, I don't have to pay half my Life Points?

How about Wall of Revealing Light? If my opponent select my face-down Wall and Ido not want to chain, can I reveal the card and have it destroyed without paying any Life Points for Wall?


Thanks,

M

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Answer:

If your opponent forces the activation of your "Solemn Judgment," the timing would be incorrect. You would not pay any Life Points.


If "Bait Doll" forces the activation of a Trap Card that has a cost, and that Trap Card's timing is correct, the player must pay the activation cost. HOWEVER, if they cannot pay, the timing will be incorrect and the Trap Card will be negated and destroyed.

Ex 1:
You force the activation of your opponent's "Skill Drain." They have over 1000 Life Points and the timing is correct, so they must pay the 1000 Life Points. "Skill Drain" remains active.

Ex 2:
You force the activation of your opponent's "Wall of Revealing Light." They have 3000 Life Points. Since the timing is correct and they have enough Life Points, they must pay the activation cost, in this case either 1000 or 2000 Life Points. "Wall of Revealing Light" remains active.

Ex 3:
Your force the activation of your opponent's face-down "Elemental Burst." They have 1 Earth-Attribute monster and 1 Water-Attribute monster, but they do not have monsters of the other two required attributes. Due to this, they cannot meet the cost and the timing for "Elemental Burst" is incorrect.

---------------------------------------
Curtis Schultz
Official UDE Netrepâ„¢
CurtisSchultz_netrep@Hotmail.com
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Looks like Bait Doll doesn't negate activation costs after all. If you can pay the cost, then you have to. If you can't, then it's incorrect timing. Easy.
 
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I still feel that ruling it this way is slightly wrong (getting there though), as being able to force your opponent to pay a cost like that seems a bit iffy (you could get stuck paying half your LP for Return From a Different Dimension!), surely it should simply be that if you wish to activate it you must chain it, and so elect to pay the cost, otherwise the timing is incorrect and so the trap is destroyed, afterall Bait Doll is spell speed 1 and so any trap can be chained to it as long as they are not reliant on a specific event having occured (e.g. summoning), these event driven traps are the ones which we knew all along would be destroyed by Bait Doll.

None-the-less, have to give a big cheer to Kevin and Curtis for getting this much ironed out at last.
 
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Well, the main thing you can't get around is the "Forced Activation" effect of Bait Doll.

You now apparently have no choice in the matter since you cannot just say "you do not wish to pay" if you have the ability to do so.

I would definitely hate to be in a situation where I have a face-down Return from the Different Dimension with 8000 life points, and "1" monster removed from play.

You can't chain to the effect of Bait Doll (with the targeted Trap Card) because it has already resolved by the time the Trap Card activates.
 
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WOW, that was an INTERESTING piece of e-mail to see in my Inbox this morning. 8^D It makes sense to me, but I have to "unlearn" what I have learned before about Bait Doll in order to apply these rulings. I have always had a belief in what the card was intentended to do vs what the text of the card actually says. This ruling seems to go in line with that as well.
 
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Exactly, Bait Doll would still remain useful since the timing wouldn't allow the activation of some traps (and so they would be destroyed) and would force your opponent to possibly use some others before they may wish to (e.g. force them to use Just Deserts before you summon another monster). Don't have any reason to think that what I've said is the way that it should work due to mechanics or anything, it just seems the most sensible way, to me anyway, to have it work.
 
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daivahataka said:
I still feel that ruling it this way is slightly wrong (getting there though), as being able to force your opponent to pay a cost like that seems a bit iffy (you could get stuck paying half your LP for Return From a Different Dimension!), surely it should simply be that if you wish to activate it you must chain it, and so elect to pay the cost, otherwise the timing is incorrect and so the trap is destroyed, afterall Bait Doll is spell speed 1 and so any trap can be chained to it as long as they are not reliant on a specific event having occured (e.g. summoning), these event driven traps are the ones which we knew all along would be destroyed by Bait Doll.

None-the-less, have to give a big cheer to Kevin and Curtis for getting this much ironed out at last.
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Oh sure, and no one remembers that Steve-O said it first.
 
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Props where they are due. Steve did get it right. Way to go Steve. And a big rapberry for Curtis for giving us the prior ruling which turns out to be entirely and completely wrong.
 
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