Adults in Yu-Gi-Oh!

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Digital Jedi

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It has always been a very American thing to regard anything remotely associated with a cartoon or even comic-like drawing with children. So much so that even the COPPA laws, which were designed to protect children's privacy on the Internet, use guidelines that associate a person's website with intending to attract children if it uses "cartoon" characters.

This is partly due to the legacy that comics have in this country. When they originated, they were intended for children only, and were marketed exclusively to them. But a lot of these kids that read comics grew up, fondly remembered their childhood heroes and villains, and inadvertently created a market for comics with a more adult edge. ("Adult" meaning more intelligent storylines, better writing and artwork. Not necessarily enhanced, or even any violence or sexuality)

But as a whole, this nation has been very hard pressed to accept that comics and cartoons grew up. Sure, there are still comics and cartoons that are expressly intended for kids. But for some reason, Americans in general can't make the distinction in their minds that there are comics for kids, comics for adults, and comics for families. And everything in between. They see a cartoon or comic book that has an act of violence, a sexy character or scenes of life that, while everyday, are of an adult nature. "They" automatically presume that the comic was expressly intended to lure young people. To expressly corrupt them. The notion that the originator is just telling a story for the sake of telling a story doesn't occur to them. Only their own personal perception.

TCGs perceptions are no different. I was once turned away from a free Toys R Us Yu-Gi-Oh! card giveaway because "it's for kids only". I could have, and should have, made a bigger deal about the matter, considering none of the fliers or promotional events suggested that you had to be a child to get the giveaway. I even asked, is this something management told them to do, but was repeated the same comment (with, I might add, no amount of veiled disdain). Had I been smart, and not so sleepy and sick that day, I would have just said it was for my kid(s). But the thing that bothered me was, I shouldn't have had to lie or twist the truth just to get a free giveaway. I come to the store and buy the cards with no argument, why should I not be entitled to a free giveaway too? It's not like I'm the only old man playing Yu-Gi-Oh! on the planet.

But again, without intending to go on a rant, it's part of the mentality of this society. They associate it all with children. And while that's certainly and undeniably a part of it, its not exclusively it. Comics, cartoons, TCGs, Video Games, their all subjects unto themselves, and not part of an exclusive segment devoted to children. No more then movies, novels and magazines are exclusively adult. Their all venues, with varying degrees of appropriateness for children, depending largely, of course, on the parent's personal standards. But somewhere and at some point, this culture is going to have to let go of outdated concepts. It's unfortunate the we've clung to it for so long, and adults as myself still have to explain myself in situations when I shouldn't have to.
 
I could express all that in just one sentence, but it'd probably be considered offensive. It involves the words "some", "people" and "idiots", and I'll leave it up to you to imagine a sentence involving those words. To protect myself, I'll just say that whatever you think of, it's probably wrong. :D
 
maruno, that doesn't make very much sense at all

Some People Potato Idiots.

you oughta express yourself more betterer.
 
DigitalJedi makes a good point. I started playing Yu-Gi-Oh! maybe two years ago. I loved everything about it. The monsters (mostly) aren't cutesy like Pokemon, beautiful artwork, Some killer strategies pulled off my intelligent players, hell I even like the unbalance of the game because you can still come back and win the match.

But I always felt the same level of shame as joy when I get my new booster box. And why should I? Any tournament I've gone to it's been guys my age and maybe one kid. If I have no shame playing Legend of Zelda, or watching reruns of Voltron, why should card game sbe any different?
 
1) Comics have evolved a little faster than cartoons in this country (they've been around longer), and have long enjoyed the spread of children (Peanuts), youth (Zits, LuAnn) and adults (Judge Parker, Crankshaft), it is in the comic book form that they tended to have difficulty launching for all but the Geeks and youth. Remember, though, published comic art started for adults with that Yellow journalism guy and The New Yorker as ways to spread, usually undesirable news and views to the public. Whereas cartoons had a much tougher go of it. The problem is our culture, little more. True, our culture has seen, designed and formatted cartoons for kids, as most of them, having come from mostly old vaudevillian comedy, were deemed to silly for adults, who used to go to see the very same live vaudeville acts as adults (artists couldn't find original material back in the day just stole characters and sketches from sitcoms and stage and repackaged them for kids). Some cartoons have been graced to have more adult content, far above the mental reaches of the youngens (the Animaniacs, for example, with their off the wall antics and phrases that the children could not get, but left us gawfawing. And anyone remember Heavy Metal???). We, however, are talking about YuGiOh! which began in Japan, where they have long cultivated distinctions between animation for children (chibi), youth (shojo and shonen) and Adult (seinen and Josei), all of which are legitimate in their circles. We are borrowing the cultural standards of another country and expecting our culture to accept it. It will be a long time (barring revolution or huge media production) before that happens. What to do? Be patient. Hope for some great cartoon movie to be culturally accepted. You've got to admit, the U.S. is trying, what with the Simpsons, Family Guy, American Dad and (God forgive me) South Park. Moreover, Adult Swim is gaining great acceptance for the Cartoon Network. It won't be long before Cartoon watching on any level becomes acceptable adult behavior (for better or worse) for more than just the geeks. Adults (in the U.S. anyway) are getting younger and younger in their minds and bodies. It won't be long now before somebody realizes that growing market.

2) The cards for kids. From what I understand the card give-away was not to get the cards out there, but to draw in fresh young adicts to the game. That is why it was aimed at the kids. Of course adults who are already well grafted into the game would want them; but outside of the game, honestly, how many new adults would this draw? On the other hand, it had good (not great) potential to draw in more kids (or at least kids who were losing interest). Just like the Happy Meals. Remember, for marketing your free stuff, aim for the next generation--those who you haven't hooked already. I don't think we will soon see he end of it. This is also why the YuGiOh! and GX shows will always be censored down to it's least objectionable form. To keep the parents at bay, so as to hook the kids and prepare the next generation to supply the great machine.

IMHO. (fact checking would be appreciated, as I am pulling all of this info from memory)
 
I'm a tolerant one who believes you, whoever you are, have your own decisions about what you watch media-wise, etc, and that age doesn't always play a factor in certain media departments.

Adult Swim originally had warnings that it was unsuitable for children under a certain age, and then the warning went up in age, then the age disappeared, then the warning became bland and vague. If you like their shows (or a certain show, as they have a huge variety that's not all on the same level), then watch it. Teenagers watch Barney and Pee Wee Herman still to look for ambiguous acts of violence maybe, or funny in a certain context.

I like the Reading Rainbow T.V. Series, Even Stevens -T.V. Series, Car Talk -Radio Talk Show, V for Vendetta -Graphic Novel, The 1812 Overture -Tchaikovsky, Yu-Gi-Oh! for god's sake, One Piece -Light Graphic Novel, Death Note -Anime, The Mask -Movie, The Son of the Mask -Sequel?, Toy Story -Animated by Pixar, Out of the Box -Disney Morning Show, Saw -Movie Series, Luther -Historic Movie, The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air -Sitcom, Mortal Kombat -V.G. Series, The Fray -Band, Drawn Together -Animated, How It's Made -Discovery Show, Little Bear -Nickelodeon Animation, Kirby -Game Series, Chess -Board game, Attack of the Show -Tech Talk Show, The Colbert Report -Mock News, and Avatar, the Last Airbender, for examples. If any one of them are promoted for certain audience ages, I've broken most of them =P. It's all about your interests, not what your Country wants your interests to be.

Anyway, I agree it's to attract more players (something I'm completely supportive of), and that it is not a question of age relation.
 
Not so much borrowing the cultural standards of another country, though you have to admit, they've had distinct comics for each age group for a lot longer then we've even considered it. But what I'm speaking more to is this nation always crying diversity and tolerance, as long as they can wrap their head around it.

The giveaway was not Yu-Gi-Oh! alone, but part of a larger group of giveaways from different toy companies. The woman in question was actually about to hand me the card, then stopped to ask me if it was for a kid. Me, in my blasted persistence to answer things honestly just said no, not for a minute thinking that this would be a problem. She suddenly drew the cards back and started giving me problems. Bottom line is, what purpose does it serve for a store to turn away a potential customer, based on what was clearly a personal bias, not a store policy? I know this, because other folks around the country got their giveaways just fine.

I can't fathom the notion that this country can be tolerant of so much it used to consider aberrations, but still be so backward on this one small subject.
 
You've got to remember Jedi that this is a country where a pack of toothpicks has directions and a WARNING about sticking them in ones eye.
 
Its actually an urban legend but its a lot more normal sounding than some of the stupid things ya have to warn people about.

Sure bags of nuts have warnings that say Careful this product may contain nuts.
 
I had a toaster that came with a manual (yes, a manual) that said: "Do not operate under water". And of course, there was that big court case here with McDonalds, so now all the coffee cups have a warning label that the coffee might be hot.

What can we do? We're the country with the most diversity, and apparently, with the most need to state the obvious.

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Maybe it's a Catch 22. I mean, if our preconceptions are contrary to the obvious, then I'm just chasing my tail trying to explain that, hey, I like the cartoons and the comics and the card games, too.

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Yeah, to say we might be missing the point is an understatement.
 
I hate going to the card shops and being teased by the Magic the Gathering players that I "play a childrens cardgame." If they just played it once, they would know you'd have to be a pretty inteligent kid to understand this stuff.
 
Magic players, at lease, have a game where the designers try to make the game rules consistent. There are no exceptions that I know of in Magic, like we have in this game. I don't think we would have had as much trouble as we have had, if the game developers would listen to UDE when they tell them that a translation isn't conveying the right meaning.

But yeah, Magic players calling Yugi a children's card game is the pot calling Wesley Snipes black.
 
Proving that yes, many people are in fact idiots.
I think it's actually a similar case to rulings questions in Yu-Gi-Oh!. That is, just because a card does not specifically state you can't do something, doesn't mean you CAN do that something. If people don't see a warning for whatever crazy thing they think of, they can do it and claim they weren't told not to do it, therefore the company is in the wrong (for assuming the customer has any amount of common sense).

It's a favourite observation of mine that common sense is not nearly as common as it should be.
 
maruno, that doesn't make very much sense at all

Some People Potato Idiots.

you oughta express yourself more betterer.


Hey, I think that is a VERY ACCURATE quote there... heck, I potato idiots all the time.... I even carry a 5 lb back of potatoes in the backseat of my car just so that when I DO see some idiot I can potato them.....

DJ... I fully agree with your post.... People should learn that when they make such a decision based on the limited knowledge they have on a particular subject.... that, by definition makes the IGNORANT..... of course, if I want that kind of narrow minded thinking I would just watch the news all day! ...... Heck, Im 35, and my typical saturday starts with the FULL lineup of cartoons on both Fox AND the CW ... yes the FULL lineup... that means that my typical saturday actually starts after NOON when all of the cartoons are over... but Im just a bit retarded like that......
 
DJ... I fully agree with your post.... People should learn that when they make such a decision based on the limited knowledge they have on a particular subject.... that, by definition makes the IGNORANT.....
Yes, but you should know that knowledge is relative. Even the greatest minds ever are still almost entirely ignorant about the Universe. Would you call them ignorant? Well, maybe, but only if they were out of earshot.

You'd need a consensus to decide the limit on the amount of knowledge you need, above which you are considered informed and below which you're ignorant. But a consensus is done between people, so you're very unlikely to reach a conclusion anyway, if for no other reason than some of those people are ignorant anyway. Different people will have different ideas about what is base knowledge, and things like that.

My real problem is when people know better, but ignore it. But this is in danger of swinging into a religious debate, and we might not want that in a topic about a children's card game.*


that means that my typical saturday actually starts after NOON when all of the cartoons are over... but Im just a bit retarded like that......
My typical Saturdays start at around the same time, but that's because it's when I bother to get up.



*Yes, a children's card game. That's what it's marketed as, anyway, even if it does take a remarkably intelligent child to understand it at all. But I like the Abridged series, so I'll forever call it a children's card game. And really, what's so wrong about being a child at heart? Children get all the fun.
 
Yes, but you should know that knowledge is relative. Even the greatest minds ever are still almost entirely ignorant about the Universe. Would you call them ignorant? Well, maybe, but only if they were out of earshot.

You'd need a consensus to decide the limit on the amount of knowledge you need, above which you are considered informed and below which you're ignorant. But a consensus is done between people, so you're very unlikely to reach a conclusion anyway, if for no other reason than some of those people are ignorant anyway. Different people will have different ideas about what is base knowledge, and things like that.

My real problem is when people know better, but ignore it. But this is in danger of swinging into a religious debate, and we might not want that in a topic about a children's card game.*

My old Social Studies teach, who taught us more about his what he and his cousin Frammy used to do when they were kids then any actual Social Studies, used to like to explain that lack of knowledge of a subject makes you ignorant to the fact. What I gleaned from kingpin's post was that people in general should recognize that when they have limited knowledge of a subject, thy should stop and think before the make statements about a subject and, at least, acknowledge the fact that their preconceptions are just that, preconceptions.

My typical Saturdays start at around the same time, but that's because it's when I bother to get up.
What is this "noon" you speak of?



*Yes, a children's card game. That's what it's marketed as, anyway, even if it does take a remarkably intelligent child to understand it at all. But I like the Abridged series, so I'll forever call it a children's card game. And really, what's so wrong about being a child at heart? Children get all the fun.

"Adults are only kids grown up, anyway." -Walt Disney
 
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