Archfiend's Roar and Cyber Archfiend

[Dillie-O]

Here's one that is styming a few of us, but I think I know the answer.

Its Player A's turn, they have no cards in hand and a set Archfiend's Roar on the field. During their draw phase, they draw a card, and since their opponent has no response, they activate Archfiend's Roar to bring Cyber Archfiend to the field. Given Cyber Archfiend's effect, do they get a second draw?

I'm thinking at this point the answer is no, since Cyber Archfiend specificially says during the beginning of the draw phase. But that leads me to a followup question, is the turn player allowed to activate any legal spell/trap cards at the start of their draw phase. If that is the case, could they then activate and resolve Archfiend's Roar, and then proceed with the draw, thus getting a second draw thanks to Cyber Archfiend?

Thanks in advance folks!

 

[Maruno]

You're right about Cyber Archfiend. The first thing to happen in a Draw Phase is the draw itself. Cyber Archfiend would add another card to that draw, but it's not on the field at that time.

The first thing to happen in a Draw Phase must be the draw. You can't activate anything else before it. So again, Cyber Archfiend won't help here.

 

[skey23]

There are currently only two things that can happen before the Draw for a player's Draw Phase (that I am aware of).

1. The effect of "Hino-Kagu-Tsuchi".
2. The effect of "Maharaghi".

 

[DarkLogicianOfCaos]

What about effects that replace the draw itself...Freed The Matchless General, for instance. Technically, in order to replace the draw, it must take effect before the draw.

 

[skey23]

No, it happens INSTEAD of the Draw. It does not happen before or after it.

 

[slither]

Something that just popped into my head with regards to the Freed thing, Cyber Archfiend says "at the beggining of the Draw Phase", Hino and Maharaghi, only state "before the Draw" as Freed states "instead of the Draw".

Now call me crazy but would't "entering the Draw Phase" what Cyber Archfiend would be referring to? as it would be the beggining of it right?

Just like any other Phase, at the beggining of the Battle Phase, Main Phase etc.

Im probably dizzy from lack of food, but it's just something that crossed my mind, the drawing a card is just a part of the Draw Phase, wouldn't it go something like:

- Enter Draw Phase
- Draw
- Leave Draw Phase

 

[skey23]

"Cyber Archfiend"s effect does not activate until AFTER you draw your card for the Draw Phase. It merely checks the Game State when you enter your Draw Phase to see if you have any cards in hand or not.

 

[Jason_C]

"Cyber Archfiend"s effect does not activate until AFTER you draw your card for the Draw Phase. It merely checks the Game State when you enter your Draw Phase to see if you have any cards in hand or not.

The use of the word "checks" implies an event before the draw. Wouldn't it be more correct to say that Cyber Archfiend just knows?:-:

 

[Maruno]

Cyber Archfiend needs to be face-up at the time of the draw in order to say "yes, no cards in hand, therefore make this a double draw". The draw happens at the start of the Draw Phase, as reinforced by Cyber Archfiend's text. You can't do anything before the draw (i.e. Call of the Haunted Cyber Archfiend), otherwise the "draw at the start of the Draw Phase" rule goes all wrong (since it's no longer the start of the phase). Hino-Kagu-Tsuchi and Maharaghi are exceptions to the rule; Call of the Haunted isn't.

 

[skey23]

Who said anything about "Call of the Haunted"? We're talking about "Cyber Archfiend".

 

[slither]

Ok, not that I want to really be technically neither pesky, but where exactly does it state that Cyber Archfiend checks after the draw? Just want to be clear about it.

 

[Maruno]

Who said anything about "Call of the Haunted"? We're talking about "Cyber Archfiend".

Archfiend's Roar, then. Same kinda thing, though.


Actually, I'm confused by the second ruling on Cyber Archfiend:

"¢ If you have multiple "Cyber Archfiends" on the field during the Draw Phase, their effects form a chain.

Since when did the draw have a chain?

 

[skey23]

Archfiend's Roar, then. Same kinda thing, though.

Why are you talking about other cards that have no bearing on this discussion? What does "Call of the Haunted" or "Archfiend's Roar" have to do with "Cyber Archfiend"?

The Draw doesn't have a Spell Speed, and cannot be chained to. You are mis-interpreting the ruling.

"Cyber Archfiend" doesn't 'check' after the draw. It triggers after the draw. The words 'in addition to' mean it happens after the Draw. You can't add on to something that hasn't happened yet.

 

[Maruno]

Why are you talking about other cards that have no bearing on this discussion? What does "Call of the Haunted" or "Archfiend's Roar" have to do with "Cyber Archfiend"?

Read the original post. But perhaps the topic's moved away from that.

I thought the "in addition to" meant that the two draws happened at the same time. To me, the wording of the effect implies this, and that it simply modifies the number of cards you're allowed to draw in your normal draw.

 

[skey23]

Read the original post.

**<smacks self on the forhead!>** I completely forgot he asked about "Archfiend's Roar"!...My sincere apologies. I was so focused on just "Cyber Archfiend" everything else just faded away...lol.

Ok, to answer the initial post. There won't be a 2nd draw in that given scenario because the "Cyber Archfiend" needed to be face-up on the field at the beginning of the Draw Phase in order for it's effect to be properly triggered. (even though the effect doesn't kick in until after the Draw for the turn)

 

[Maruno]

Ok, to answer the initial post. There won't be a 2nd draw in that given scenario because the "Cyber Archfiend" needed to be face-up on the field at the beginning of the Draw Phase in order for it's effect to be properly triggered. (even though the effect doesn't kick in until after the Draw for the turn)

And the only way that's going to happen is if Cyber Archfiend is on the field at the very end of your opponent's previous turn. You could always activate your Archfiend's Roar then, with the added bonus of not having to worry about a Seven Tools of the Bandit (or similar) they may have Set earlier that turn.

 

[skey23]

And the only way that's going to happen is if Cyber Archfiend is on the field at the very end of your opponent's previous turn. You could always activate your Archfiend's Roar then, with the added bonus of not having to worry about a Seven Tools of the Bandit (or similar) they may have Set earlier that turn.

Well, there is one small issue with that...lol. The monster Special Summoned by "Archfiend's Roar" is destroyed during the End Phase of the turn it's Special Summoned.

That's no bueno with this scenario...lol.

 

[Maruno]

Well, there is one small issue with that...lol. The monster Special Summoned by "Archfiend's Roar" is destroyed during the End Phase of the turn it's Special Summoned.

That's no bueno with this scenario...lol.

You didn't let me finish.


...However, the monster Special Summoned by Archfiend's Roar is destroyed during the End Phase of the turn it's Special Summoned (i.e. practically immediately if you try what I just said), so there's really no way that'll work.

You could always go with Call of the Haunted, though. That'd work fine enough.

 

[slither]

"Cyber Archfiend" doesn't 'check' after the draw. It triggers after the draw. The words 'in addition to' mean it happens after the Draw. You can't add on to something that hasn't happened yet.

**faints from having missed that part of the text**

@_@ I was abducted by aliens, I couldn't read the pressure was just too much, it was Profesor Plum I tell you.

 

[Dillie-O]

hehe, its nice to see we've gotten a refresher on the first three rules of judging: Read the text completely on the cards. 8^D But all of this confirms my initial thoughts. Thanks!