Ban List updated (effective July 1st)
- Thread starter YugiDad
- Start date
DaAmazing1
43616e20796f75206865
The ban list is stupid, any of those cards could have been errated instead of banned. The only reason I can think they banned them is because the new sets might have some effects that might cause infinite loops.
The worse fo the ban is Justice League of Arkham, a couple of people abused the card and bam they ban it. I was hoping to face one of these decks because its so easy to counter. They could have just errated the text so that it can only be played during the combat phase....
The worse fo the ban is Justice League of Arkham, a couple of people abused the card and bam they ban it. I was hoping to face one of these decks because its so easy to counter. They could have just errated the text so that it can only be played during the combat phase....
My only guess is that UDE spent the days between the PC and the announcement making decks to test out possible errata...my guess is that this will lead to a general nerfing of future sets. Not too bad of a nerfing, just to keep an eye on things like discard effects and loops and such. Justin Gary had an interesting (and oddly prescient) article on Metagame about designing DCR, and it looks like his attempt to make "scary cards" worked a little too well. Hopefully the Galactus set is undergoing some extra testing, and we don't have to have any more banned cards.
I couldn't believe it myself. But it looks like it's coinciding with the release of the new Comp Rules: http://entertainment.upperdeck.com/op/vs_rules/news.aspx
Which interestingly has only one change this time around:
6/08/06
Which interestingly has only one change this time around:
6/08/06
New Version of the Comprehensive Rules
The rules team has recently released version 1.92 of the Comprehensive Rules. The only change is the addition of the following:
203.9b If an object would be KO'd in order to pay a cost, a replacement modifier can replace the event of putting that object into a KO'd pile, and that cost is still considered to have been paid. This is an exception to 203.9 and 513.5d.
Any combos here I'm missing, or is this unrelated? Just seems odd to have a set planned so far out in advance that you end up banning them two sets later. And there was nothing broken about Base. What did they go and do, make a card that says "Whenever you draw and card serach your deck for an equipment with a cost of 1 or less"?The rules team has recently released version 1.92 of the Comprehensive Rules. The only change is the addition of the following:
203.9b If an object would be KO'd in order to pay a cost, a replacement modifier can replace the event of putting that object into a KO'd pile, and that cost is still considered to have been paid. This is an exception to 203.9 and 513.5d.
krazykidpsx
New Member
okay the Team-Up Card getting banned seems a bit stupid to me. im sorry but really it does.
only cuase they discard 1 card, whoppie do they already draw 2 cards per turn how will that influence anything? with the new Mr. Mxyzptlk its not like it matters anyways. and to top it off its not like you have a way to rush through resources you have to wait till turn 4 anyways to use it or make some form of X-men/Arkham Team up, which is still kinda a big "huh?" to me.
the research base is only in Golden Age were it makes a difference, and currently unless you are playing Midnight Son's and just recruiting a bunch of 0 cost equipment which if i remember correctly is only a 1 to 1 thing what would it matter if they draw cards?
Overload has been banned for a while and a crummier version of it released so i see no problem with it. heck it made Savage beatdown really stupid too.
only cuase they discard 1 card, whoppie do they already draw 2 cards per turn how will that influence anything? with the new Mr. Mxyzptlk its not like it matters anyways. and to top it off its not like you have a way to rush through resources you have to wait till turn 4 anyways to use it or make some form of X-men/Arkham Team up, which is still kinda a big "huh?" to me.
the research base is only in Golden Age were it makes a difference, and currently unless you are playing Midnight Son's and just recruiting a bunch of 0 cost equipment which if i remember correctly is only a 1 to 1 thing what would it matter if they draw cards?
Overload has been banned for a while and a crummier version of it released so i see no problem with it. heck it made Savage beatdown really stupid too.
helpoemer316
Will game for food
I saw the ARB equip deck in action on Thursday in the Golden Age LCQ, it was sick beyond belief, Daniella (of Scholarship Circuit fame) was running it.
And personally I feel that this really was the best course of action, erratas only make the game more confusing for those trying to get in. When you tell someone that something doesn't work a certain way when they thought it did (because that's how it read on the card) due to an errata then you just have all sorts of problems. People are still having problems with cards in YGO to this day that have been errata'ed for the better part of a couple of years, so IMO it's always easier to let someone know "In a competitive format, that card is banned." They don't ask any questions after that, espeically if they've played similar TCG's in the past.
And personally I feel that this really was the best course of action, erratas only make the game more confusing for those trying to get in. When you tell someone that something doesn't work a certain way when they thought it did (because that's how it read on the card) due to an errata then you just have all sorts of problems. People are still having problems with cards in YGO to this day that have been errata'ed for the better part of a couple of years, so IMO it's always easier to let someone know "In a competitive format, that card is banned." They don't ask any questions after that, espeically if they've played similar TCG's in the past.
For those wondering I will let you know why these cards were banned. Even if I don't totally agree with it.
Justice League of Arkham - It was possible on turn 4 to cause your opponent to discard their entire hand (up to something like 13 cards) before they even had a chance to set a resource and recruit a character. From that point on you can continually discard their 2 cards they draw each turn before their recruit step, effectively neutering their game after turn 3. This was abusive and caused a severe restriction on the entire metagame. I understand them banning this card even though there were decks that beat it straight up as well as ways to stop their combo from going off.
Antarctic Research Base - This is a huge mistake if you ask me. The problem resulted from a deck that comboed out on turn 3. It would recruit thing, equip all 3 Fate artifacts drawing a card for each, then drawing 3 and discarding 3 for the Helm of Nabu. It would continue to re-equip Helm 3 more times, thus drawing 12 cards and discarding 9. Then it would start using the Salvages that it drew to do this 4 more times. During this time it would also be re-equipping all of the Fate artifacts just to draw a card with Antarctic. You obviously do not need the characters you draw so they become the discards. By the end of your hijinks you effectively draw through your entire deck leaving you with 4 copies of Cosmic Radiation, 4 copies of Team Tactics, and a couple Blind-Sided for insurance. Good game.
I understand that this combo is broken and needed fixed. However it was not the Bases fault. The problem lies in the Fate Artifacts. This is the 2nd problem they have caused since their release. How many more things will be hurt because of them before they realize that the Artifacts are the problem?
And the reason they errated Parademon is as follows. Turn 6, you would reveal Parademon 1,000,000 times per his effect. You would evade Storm (after teaming up with Secret Six). This sets off all 1,000,000 effects of Parademon. You resolve them one at a time putting Parademon into play next to Callisto and returning him to your hand per Callisto's effect to put a counter on a character you control. Then the next one resolves and you continue repeating this process until all your characters have 300,000 counters each. Now with the errata he plays like he was meant to. Pretty much you can only bring him into play once as the cost to put him on the chain removes him from the game.
Justice League of Arkham - It was possible on turn 4 to cause your opponent to discard their entire hand (up to something like 13 cards) before they even had a chance to set a resource and recruit a character. From that point on you can continually discard their 2 cards they draw each turn before their recruit step, effectively neutering their game after turn 3. This was abusive and caused a severe restriction on the entire metagame. I understand them banning this card even though there were decks that beat it straight up as well as ways to stop their combo from going off.
Antarctic Research Base - This is a huge mistake if you ask me. The problem resulted from a deck that comboed out on turn 3. It would recruit thing, equip all 3 Fate artifacts drawing a card for each, then drawing 3 and discarding 3 for the Helm of Nabu. It would continue to re-equip Helm 3 more times, thus drawing 12 cards and discarding 9. Then it would start using the Salvages that it drew to do this 4 more times. During this time it would also be re-equipping all of the Fate artifacts just to draw a card with Antarctic. You obviously do not need the characters you draw so they become the discards. By the end of your hijinks you effectively draw through your entire deck leaving you with 4 copies of Cosmic Radiation, 4 copies of Team Tactics, and a couple Blind-Sided for insurance. Good game.
I understand that this combo is broken and needed fixed. However it was not the Bases fault. The problem lies in the Fate Artifacts. This is the 2nd problem they have caused since their release. How many more things will be hurt because of them before they realize that the Artifacts are the problem?
And the reason they errated Parademon is as follows. Turn 6, you would reveal Parademon 1,000,000 times per his effect. You would evade Storm (after teaming up with Secret Six). This sets off all 1,000,000 effects of Parademon. You resolve them one at a time putting Parademon into play next to Callisto and returning him to your hand per Callisto's effect to put a counter on a character you control. Then the next one resolves and you continue repeating this process until all your characters have 300,000 counters each. Now with the errata he plays like he was meant to. Pretty much you can only bring him into play once as the cost to put him on the chain removes him from the game.
DaAmazing1
43616e20796f75206865
helpoemer316 said:
Yeah, but now you buy a pack of cards and you can get a card you can't play. So, now that pack you bought technically has 11 cards playable cards instead of 12. Is Ude going to recall the banned cards? I simple errata on each card would fix the problems, besides its your responsibility as a player to know what your cards do.
I suppose it's better then having the game turn into Chaos-All-Over-Again. Would have been nice if thier playtesters had come across this early. That's not too much to ask....is it?
You can't expect the playtesters to catch everything. The JLOA ban does nothing to the meta since no one used it prior to the broken deck. They can release another version in a later set with more restrictions and all will be ok. If they would have made it combat phase only did you wouldn't be able to team up outside of the combat phase with it.
I don't see anyway they could errata ARB to fix the problem. From what I heard the deck basically went off 95% of the time with a turn 3 kill. Thats worse than the killing joke/ivy league deck. Also if they were to go ahead and ban the fate artifacts it would kill another 3 or 4 cards with them.
I personally think UDE is doing a great job with its sets. We have 10 sets so far and only 3 cards banned. How many cards are banned for Yugioh again?
I don't see anyway they could errata ARB to fix the problem. From what I heard the deck basically went off 95% of the time with a turn 3 kill. Thats worse than the killing joke/ivy league deck. Also if they were to go ahead and ban the fate artifacts it would kill another 3 or 4 cards with them.
I personally think UDE is doing a great job with its sets. We have 10 sets so far and only 3 cards banned. How many cards are banned for Yugioh again?
DaAmazing1
43616e20796f75206865
I guess I'm kinda pissed about the ban because I can no longer run fantastic fun. That was by far my favorite deck.
They could have errated the artifacts so that they can't be equipped if already on the field. And for the justice league of arkham at least the combat phase restriction is better than no team-up at all. Ude just alienated some potential decks that people might have still played by banning cards instead of an simple errata.
I don't believe everything will be caught during playtesting but to me banning cards leads to a much worse play experience than an errata.
They could have errated the artifacts so that they can't be equipped if already on the field. And for the justice league of arkham at least the combat phase restriction is better than no team-up at all. Ude just alienated some potential decks that people might have still played by banning cards instead of an simple errata.
I don't believe everything will be caught during playtesting but to me banning cards leads to a much worse play experience than an errata.
EmeraldDragon
Bringer of Doom
One thing guys........
While this is great and all and we can talk for hurs about it I feel it may be prudent for topics such as this that the card text be given. Not all of us know the cards and while we can look them up its easier for people when the card text is given in the thread. so im gonna go ahead and post the card text ok. It also might help people understand where Exardave is coming from in his examples.
[font=verdana,helvetica,sans-serif]Overload[/font]
[font=verdana,helvetica,sans-serif]
, Plot Twist[/font]
- Stun target character with ATK greater than twice its printed ATK
[font=verdana,helvetica,sans-serif]Justice League of Arkham[/font]
[font=verdana,helvetica,sans-serif]
, Plot Twist[/font]
[font=verdana,helvetica,sans-serif]- Ongoing
- Choose two team affiliations among characters you control. If you chose Arkham Inmates and another affiliation, each of your opponents discards a card.
- Ongoing: Characters you control, as well as cards in your deck, hand, and KO'd pile that have either of the chosen affiliations have both affiliations.
[/font]
[font=verdana,helvetica,sans-serif]Antarctic Research Base[/font]
[font=verdana,helvetica,sans-serif]
, Location[/font]
- Whenever you recruit an equipment card, if you control a Fantastic Four character, draw a card.
By the way I am finding this very interesting. I just started VS so I havent had much experience with any of these decks. Wellany experience at all actually. Please continue.
While this is great and all and we can talk for hurs about it I feel it may be prudent for topics such as this that the card text be given. Not all of us know the cards and while we can look them up its easier for people when the card text is given in the thread. so im gonna go ahead and post the card text ok. It also might help people understand where Exardave is coming from in his examples.
[font=verdana,helvetica,sans-serif]Overload[/font]
[font=verdana,helvetica,sans-serif]
- Stun target character with ATK greater than twice its printed ATK
[font=verdana,helvetica,sans-serif]Justice League of Arkham[/font]
[font=verdana,helvetica,sans-serif]
[font=verdana,helvetica,sans-serif]- Ongoing
- Choose two team affiliations among characters you control. If you chose Arkham Inmates and another affiliation, each of your opponents discards a card.
- Ongoing: Characters you control, as well as cards in your deck, hand, and KO'd pile that have either of the chosen affiliations have both affiliations.
[/font]
[font=verdana,helvetica,sans-serif]Antarctic Research Base[/font]
[font=verdana,helvetica,sans-serif]
- Whenever you recruit an equipment card, if you control a Fantastic Four character, draw a card.
By the way I am finding this very interesting. I just started VS so I havent had much experience with any of these decks. Wellany experience at all actually. Please continue.
DaAmazing1 said:
I don't think that would work. The combo uses 3 drop Thing. They just ko the equip then recruit another one. Plus the banning of ARB lets them explore with different types of equips now. It did kill off the FF deck but I wouldn't be surprised to see an new card come out that works about the same way. Maybe an activated ability or once per turn effect. This stops the loop.
krazykidpsx
New Member
i thought JLA was just a one shot when you used the first part of the effect, since when did calling the team affiliations become Ongoing?
man... You know how i see it... THe person was smart, they abused a card for a team that rarely see's any competative play and now people cry about it.
To me personally its like a noob complaining about Tooth and Nail decks or Affinity, or in standard any Jitte Deck.
THey arnt all that, that you cant beat them. they are beatable just in a hard way.
man... You know how i see it... THe person was smart, they abused a card for a team that rarely see's any competative play and now people cry about it.
To me personally its like a noob complaining about Tooth and Nail decks or Affinity, or in standard any Jitte Deck.
THey arnt all that, that you cant beat them. they are beatable just in a hard way.
EmeraldDragon
Bringer of Doom
Well really I can say one thing about this. JLOA should just be errated to remove the ongoing bit from the first effect so that it cant be screwed with so much. Simple and ya get to still use the card. Why not errate it instead of banning it if its something so simple.
The JLOA deck is/was beatable but there were only 3 cards that slowed it down. 3 drop Sage, Latverian Embassy, and Bad Press. You had to hit one of these cards by turn 3 or you were SOL. UDE didn't want this and a lot of players didn't either. I do think they could have errated it but they probably just thought banning it and bringing out a less powerful version may be better. If they do bring out another version.
EmeraldDragon
Bringer of Doom
seems to me thought it would be a bit more sensible to errate it and remove one simple word from the card text and make everything hunky dory