Basic Priority Questions

[carlossilva]

... or they should be, but while browsing through several forums I've often read contradictory answers ( whether direct or implied ) so I've decided to place them here.

1. After the turn player draws a card in his/her draw phase, who has priority to activate a quickplay spell or trap card?

2. After an attack is declared by the turn player, who has priority to activate a card in response to the attack ?

3. After a chain has completely resolved, who has priority to respond to the end of the chain? ( I've read it's the turn player, I've read it's the opponent of the controller of the last effect to resolve - this last one actually came from UDE ... )

Thanks

Carlos

 

[Tiso]

Keep in mind he said Spell Speed 2, not 3. We know the opponent has priority on that, unless of course I summon Jinzo, then activate my own Solemn Judgment first. Man priority gives me a headache.

 

[Absird]

You can't Solemn Judgment you own cards.

 

[masterwoo0]

Nawww, we already know that the turn player has priority with a summon. He also has priority when starting a chain, which "could" occur once he finshes his summon. But, the opponent has witnessed an event, which he can respond to and that has a certain timing for the response.

All I was indicating is that it all depends on the cards used, as well as when they are used.

If its the Battle Phase, the turn player can only activate a Quick-Play or Trap. As long as the Damage Step has not been reached, the opponent can still respond to a Special Summon with BTH.

So, knowing that the turn player has no set Spells or Traps after summoning a Normal Monster, he would only be able to activate a Quick-Play from hand, could cause the opponent to "assume" that he can activate BTH safely upon a summon, especially if there is no hand.

What priority would a Normal Monster Controller have, with no hand, and no set Spell or Traps, and ONLY the Normal Monster Summoned on the field?

 

[Tiso]

You can't Solemn Judgment you own cards.

Uh, yes you can.

 

[Absird]

Nawww, we already know that the turn player has priority with a summon. He also has priority when starting a chain, which "could" occur once he finshes his summon. But, the opponent has witnessed an event, which he can respond to and that has a certain timing for the response.

All I was indicating is that it all depends on the cards used, as well as when they are used.

If its the Battle Phase, the turn player can only activate a Quick-Play or Trap. As long as the Damage Step has not been reached, the opponent can still respond to a Special Summon with BTH.

So, knowing that the turn player has no set Spells or Traps after summoning a Normal Monster, he would only be able to activate a Quick-Play from hand, could cause the opponent to "assume" that he can activate BTH safely upon a summon, especially if there is no hand.

What priority would a Normal Monster Controller have, with no hand, and no set Spell or Traps, and ONLY the Normal Monster Summoned on the field?

The priority to pass priority to his opponant

 

[skey23]

So nobody has any issues with what I posted/asked/debated/denied/griped about back up on post # 17?

I can't believe that. SOMEBODY's gotta have something to say. How else are we gonna learn if we don't talk about it? Huh?

 

[masterwoo0]

I can only speak for myself, but I got down to the part where Jinzo was flipped face down, and TV started looking really good...

I just had a hard time staying with the scenario with it being broke up the way it was...

 

[skey23]

Did you read what John posted back on #14? That's what I was responding to and quoting. What John posted came from UDE, but it doesn't 'jive' with what we've been told, at least, as far what what 'I' know and understand about Priority. I could be completely wrong in my 'assumptions', which is why I posted them.

 

[masterwoo0]

Okay... Back to the Tsukuyomi flips and no response part.

This goes back to the principle that you can chain to your own effect if your opponent does not respond (or choose to chain a card effect). Since the opponent passed his priority back to the controller of Tsukuyomi, the turn player may now choose to build on the current chain, or, pass. At that point, both players would have passed priority and the chain would resolve.

Both players must pass "legal" priority before a chain can resolve.

As far as the opponent summoning with CotH and Priority passing back to the turn player, it should pass back to the turn player unless the summoned monster has an effect that activates when it is Special Summoned to the field.

Not sure what else is at issue.

 

[skey23]

Ok, forgive me, but I'm gonna break down John's post again because I think it all actually 'clicked' in my head.

So in your example is Player A's Main Phase, so he starts with the Priority (it is his turn after all).

He Summons Tsukuyomi. Its trigger effects starts a chain. (After a Summon player A would normally retain priority to activate an Ignition Effect or Spell Speed 2 Spell or Trap, but Tsukuyomi's Trigger Effect must start a chain).

He targets Jinzo.

Player A's ability to respond has been 'used up' by "Tsukuyomi"s Mandatory Trigger Effect. This makes perfect sense.

The opponent may chain an effect, but does not. The turn player may chain an effect, but does not.

This NOW makes perfect sense to me (thanks Masterwoo0). BOTH players must be given the opportunity to respond to this Summon/Effect. Player A was not given that opportunity. It does not matter that it is Player A's effect, they still have the right to respond and/or chain to it.

Jinzo is flipped face-down.

Both players have now passed on their response so the chain must now resolve. This makes perfect sense.

Priority is now passed to Player B.

I'm still not sure why this happens. Is it because Player A was the last to pass on a response? Or is it because the opponent of the controller of the last effect to resolve is the one that gains/retains Priority?

Player B activates "Call of the Haunted". Neither player chain anything,
and Player B finishes his Special Summon.

Ok, upon successful completion of the Special Summon of this monster, who retains Priority to respond? Right now, Priority is currently with Player B. Would Player B have to wait for Player A to respond before activating a set Spell/Trap?

Priority is passed pack to Player A.

Why? Because they're the Turn Player? Or because the opponent of the controller of the last effect to resolve gains/retains Priority?

He Flip Summons Jinzo. Since he just performed a Summon, he retains priority only to activate an Ignition or Spell Speed 2 Spell or Trap. If he decides not to activate one of those kind of effects - Priority passes to Player B.

As I said before, THIS makes perfect sense and is what we all know and agree upon.

Do you see how priority is passed back-and-forth between the players, with the only hiccup being when the turn player performs a Summon.

It's not as complicated as everyone makes it out to be - and there is only 1 kind of priority.

I still don't know how true that is. I still have a bunch of questions that I'd like to ask. These will do for now....maybe.

 

[masterwoo0]

Well, it looks like Player A is the turn player, and Player B is the opponent who activated Call of the Haunted.

Since most Ignition Effects can only be activated in the turn players Main Phase, as I stated, unless the monster has a Triggered effect (Granadora) that occurs from his summoning, the Opponent must pass his priority upon the successful summon, back to the turn player.

 

[Tkwiget]

Wow, umm, I would like to get into this discussion but reading everything confused me. Someone give me a summary please. =)

Twiggy want in on this action!!!! MUWAHHAH!!! All I know is, it's about priority..lol

 

[Raijinili]

Whether or not response priority depends on the controller of the last resolved effect.

John Danker said it did, novastar corrected him, John re-corrected him with some LV3 Judge List posts.

 

[slither]

Now, just to add a little spice to this discussion, i'll point something regarding this scenario:

QUESTION:
Player A activated The Warrior Returning Alive and got back Black Luster
Soldier - Envoy of the Beggining for the graveyard.

Player B activated Mind Crush in response to the Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of
the Beggining being put in Player A's hand, calling Black Luster Solder - EOTB.

So my question is, are you allowed to respond to a movement like adding a card
to a hand? Also does Plaer A have Priority to summon BLS - EOTB before Player B
activates Mind Crush?


ANSWERS:
1. Yes you can respond.
2. No the player doesn't have priority to Special Summon his monster.

Kevin Tewart
Game Developer
UDE Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG R&D Lead
Upper Deck Entertainment

As we can see the restriction in this case is that the turn player doesn't have priority to summon BLS. Now this is correct for some simple reason, that the turn player has already chosen to do something, in this case activate The Warrior Returning Alive, now at the time that TWRA would be completely resolved, turn player would still have priority to activate a Spell Speed 2 or higher effect card.

Let's analize this for a second, if instead of the turn player activating TWRA he would've chosen to summon a monster, he would still retain priority to activate either an ignition effect or a spell speed 2 or higher effect.

Turn player still made a speedless action, activating a card (this can be replaced by a summon, attack, etc.).

Meh just something I felt like saying.

 

[novastar]

Obviously the confusion goes on due to a lack of definition by Konami (which should have come when the whole issue of priority was introduced) I don't blame ANYONE for having confusion on this issue, even the people who are seemingly the most "in the know" often have misconceptions concerning this issue.

I'll reference some responses on a discussion on the L3 list (which IS an official source and every bit as official as the standard judge's list btw) .........

----------------------------------------------------

QUESTION:
Player A activated The Warrior Returning Alive and got back Black Luster
Soldier - Envoy of the Beggining for the graveyard.

Player B activated Mind Crush in response to the Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of
the Beggining being put in Player A's hand, calling Black Luster Solder - EOTB.

So my question is, are you allowed to respond to a movement like adding a card
to a hand? Also does Plaer A have Priority to summon BLS - EOTB before Player B
activates Mind Crush?


ANSWERS:
1. Yes you can respond.
2. No the player doesn't have priority to Special Summon his monster.

Kevin Tewart
Game Developer
UDE Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG R&D Lead
Upper Deck Entertainment
--------------------------------------------------------
In another post by Dan later in the thread.......
-------------------------------------------------------

So in your example is Player A's Main Phase, so he starts with the
Priority (it is his turn after all).

He Summons Tsukuyomi. Its trigger effects starts a chain. (After a
Summon player A would normally retain priority to activate an Ignition
Effect or Spell Speed 2 Spell or Trap, but Tsukuyomi's Trigger Effect
must start a chain).

He targets Jinzo. The opponent may chain an effect, but does not. The
turn player may chain an effect, but does not.

Jinzo is flipped face-down.

Priority is now passed to Player B.

Player B activates "Call of the Haunted". Neither player chain anything,
and Player B finishes his Special Summon.

Priority is passed pack to Player A. He Flip Summons Jinzo. Since he
just performed a Summon, he retains priority only to activate an
Ignition or Spell Speed 2 Spell or Trap. If he decides not to activate
one of those kind of effects - Priority passes to Player B.

Do you see how priority is passed back-and-forth between the players,
with the only hiccup being when the turn player performs a Summon.

It's not as complicated as everyone makes it out to be - and there is
only 1 kind of priority.

Dan Scheidegger
Jr. Game Designer
Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG R&D
Upper Deck Entertainment

Ok, even if i were to buy into this, which of course i don't, but lets say i did...

What would happen here:

Player A activates and resolves Call of the Haunted to special summon Exiled Force.

What happens now? can the Turn Player activate Exiled's effect? or can the opponent respond first?

Additionally, in Dan's example Player B uses Call to special summon a monster, THEN automatically (once the summon is successful), the Turn Player recieves priority and can flip summon???

Sounds out of wack to me, there should be a reponse timing there first for the special summon, THEN after that, the Turn Player could flip summon.

If you wanna believe that, can't stop you there, but it's fishy.

The problem is that written official text is hard to find to illustrate any of this... but they (Kevin and Dan) have the luxury of being able to type something and have their word interpreted as official...which is frankly BS if you ask me.... They don't know any more than me or you do John... and that is the truth.

Until Konami actually decides what they wanna do with Priority, Kevin and the funky bunch can pretend to be the end all and be all all they want... but we don't have to listen.

 

[novastar]

Whether or not response priority depends on the controller of the last resolved effect.

John Danker said it did, novastar corrected him, John re-corrected him with some LV3 Judge List posts.

btw, what are you thoughts on this?

 

[novastar]

Now, just to add a little spice to this discussion, i'll point something regarding this scenario:



As we can see the restriction in this case is that the turn player doesn't have priority to summon BLS. Now this is correct for some simple reason, that the turn player has already chosen to do something, in this case activate The Warrior Returning Alive, now at the time that TWRA would be completely resolved, turn player would still have priority to activate a Spell Speed 2 or higher effect card.

Let's analize this for a second, if instead of the turn player activating TWRA he would've chosen to summon a monster, he would still retain priority to activate either an ignition effect or a spell speed 2 or higher effect.

Turn player still made a speedless action, activating a card (this can be replaced by a summon, attack, etc.).

Meh just something I felt like saying.

The Turn Player cannot summon because you cannot summon during response timing.

Activation IS the only "speedful" action, it is the very essence of Spell Speed.

 

[slither]

The Turn Player cannot summon because you cannot summon during response timing.

Activation IS the only "speedful" action, it is the very essence of Spell Speed.

Yes im aware of it , I was just trying to emphasize the Reasoning behind it, that's why I made the example that instead of activating TWRA, the player chose to summon a monster, it is still a situation in which the turn player has a chance to respond to his own summoning .

 

[Raijinili]

btw, what are you thoughts on this?

I don't see rulings evidence one way or another, so my mind's not inclined either way.

Still not sure whether a TP's triggered effect existing as the last on chain means the opponent's optional/optrigger effect would be next in line.

 

[John Danker]

Ok, even if i were to buy into this, which of course i don't, but lets say i did...

What would happen here:

Player A activates and resolves Call of the Haunted to special summon Exiled Force.

What happens now? can the Turn Player activate Exiled's effect? or can the opponent respond first?

Additionally, in Dan's example Player B uses Call to special summon a monster, THEN automatically (once the summon is successful), the Turn Player recieves priority and can flip summon???

It's as simple as it is when turn player enters MP 1 and summons Exiled Force...who has priority then? Same thing.
As Dan said, the only glitch is when the chain ends in a summon.

Sounds out of wack to me, there should be a reponse timing there first for the special summon, THEN after that, the Turn Player could flip summon.

It sounds out of wack to a number of people (as did the the ruling of any monster currently face up on the field being able to activate an optional effect when another is summoned...and was suddenly widely accepted) only because people have a preconcieved idea in their head as to how they've reasoned out priority should work.

If you wanna believe that, can't stop you there, but it's fishy.

The problem is that written official text is hard to find to illustrate any of this... but they (Kevin and Dan) have the luxury of being able to type something and have their word interpreted as official...which is frankly BS if you ask me.... They don't know any more than me or you do John... and that is the truth.

Until Konami actually decides what they wanna do with Priority, Kevin and the funky bunch can pretend to be the end all and be all all they want... but we don't have to listen.

Weather we like it or not, until such time as Konami decides to get off their kester and publish a full explination of priority (I'm still completely amazed at the lack of their responsability and absolutely ignoring this issue) Kevin and Dan ARE indeed the end all. They know as much or more than any of us do. I'm absolutely certain they've had much more contact and discussion with Konami than any of us.

That last paragraph may have sounded a little harsh. My appologies for that. What we don't do anybody any favors by is telling them that what UDE has decided is the ruling is incorrect and ruling as we see fit. This only creates MORE confusion. I don't necessarily agree with all the rulings I'm given either....and obviously this forum is a fantastic media to discuss those rulings we don't agree with and try to reason them out. I thank everyone for their input and certainly novastar is one in paticular that I have absolute respect and admiration for in his abilities and Reasoning. I'm not even saying this is the end all for the definition of priority. I'm simply stating what's been posted and that as judges we SHOULD be ruling as it's been posted until such time as it's handed down to us differently....weather we agree with it or not.

In the mean time...by all means, debate, disect, reason....whatever. Please don't though, throw aside what has been given by those who have greater connections and spend even more time than you and I (believe it or not) on the mechanics and rulings of the game.