Batteryman Micro-cell effect.

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Ragnarok_Keyblade

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I'm not really all that good with rulings so I was wondering: If Micro-cell is attacked in facedown defense position and sent to the graveyard would the second part of his effect activate. (For clarification):

FLIP:secail summon 1 level 4 or lower "batteryman" monster from your deck, except "batteryman micro-cell". after this card has been flipped face up, when it is destroyed and sent to the graveyard, draw 1 card.
 
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Dark_Soulslayer said:
I'm not really all that good with rulings so I was wondering: If Micro-cell is attacked in facedown defense position and sent to the graveyard would the second part of his effect activate. (For clarification):

FLIP:secail summon 1 level 4 or lower "batteryman" monster from your deck, except "batteryman micro-cell". after this card has been flipped face up, when it is destroyed and sent to the graveyard, draw 1 card.
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Resolve the card's FLIP effect first. Then, at the end portion of the damage step, when the card is sent to the graveyard, resolve the second effect and draw one card. You cannot, however, resolve the second effect of Micro-cell if the card is not sent to the graveyard but removed from play instead (eg. Macro Cosmos, Banisher, Dimensional Fissure).
 
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HorusMaster said:
Resolve the card's FLIP effect first. Then, at the end portion of the damage step, when the card is sent to the graveyard, resolve the second effect and draw one card. You cannot, however, resolve the second effect of Micro-cell if the card is not sent to the graveyard but removed from play instead (eg. Macro Cosmos, Banisher, Dimensional Fissure).
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So what your saying is that even if was face-down when it was first attacked the second effect still goes off?
 
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[info]FLIP: Special Summon 1 Level 4 or lower "Batteryman" monster from your Deck, except "Batteryman Micro-Cell". After this card has been flipped face-up, when it is destroyed by battle and sent to the Graveyard, draw 1 card. [/info]I could honestly see the ruling go either way. It's possible that "Batteryman Micro-Cell" isn't considered "flipped face-up" until after the Damage Step, similar to "D.D Survivor", "Poison Draw Frog", "Giant Kozaky", "Atomic Firefly", *inhale*, and "Fire Fox".

Of course, they added that reminder text to "Poison Draw Frog", so it's possible that they purposely didn't add it to "Batteryman Button Cell" since it works differently.

[/musings]
 
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A face-down monster is flipped face-up by an attack during Sub Step 2 of the Damage Step. The monster is considered to be destroyed during Sub Step 5 of the Damage Step, and will be sent to the Graveyard during Sub Step 6.

The monsters you listed must already be face-up when the attack is declared in order for their effects to work.
 
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When a face-down "D.D. Survivor" is attacked while "Macro Cosmos" is onthe field, is flipped face-up during Sub-Step 2, so that he's face-up while destroyed during Sub-Step 5 and removed from play during Sub-Step 6.

His text doesn't mention being attacked while face-down. All that he needs to be is "face-up on your side of the field" while removed from play. And yet, for some reason, he isn't considered "face-up on your side of the field" when removed from play during Sub-Step 6.

Why, then, would "Batteryman Micro-Cell" be considered face-up when sent to the Graveyard during Sub-Step 6?
 
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Because D.D. Survivor, like many cards, is subject to a phenomenon known as bad wording. It doesn't say exactly what it does, either because of trying to save space (early Relinquished cards didn't have the generic Ritual Monster blurb at the beginning) or because the translation and wording was done by someone who didn't know how the card was supposed to work (far more likely).

D.D. Survivor is face-up on the field after being flipped by an attack, and as such is destroyed while face-up on the field. The only reason he doesn't get his effect is because he's not supposed to. His actual text isn't wholly accurate. That's why the ruling exists that he doesn't get the effect, because apparently making rulings is easier to do than kicking the translator until he gets things right.
 
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The translation isn't the problem. His Japanese text makes no mention about being attacked while face-down.

I'm pretty sure that they're very consistent with this "ruling". Are there any counter-examples? As in, a monster that needs to be destroyed while face-up to get its effect, and gets the effect when attacked while face-down?
 
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skey23 said:
A face-down monster is flipped face-up by an attack during Sub Step 2 of the Damage Step. The monster is considered to be destroyed during Sub Step 5 of the Damage Step, and will be sent to the Graveyard during Sub Step 6.

The monsters you listed must already be face-up when the attack is declared in order for their effects to work.
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So, in this instance, Batteryman Micro-Cell, if attacked while face down, would still get it's second effect of drawing one card if destroyed by battle and sent to the graveyard, correct?
 
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No. If its attacked while face down and destroyed it will only get its flip effect. If face up before being attacked then he will get the second effect but only if he had been previously flipped. If he was summoned in face up mode then he is just another weak meat shield.
 
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Entropy said:
I could honestly see the ruling go either way. It's possible that "Batteryman Micro-Cell" isn't considered "flipped face-up" until after the Damage Step, similar to "D.D Survivor", "Poison Draw Frog", "Giant Kozaky", "Atomic Firefly", *inhale*, and "Fire Fox".

Of course, they added that reminder text to "Poison Draw Frog", so it's possible that they purposely didn't add it to "Batteryman Button Cell" since it works differently.

[/musings]
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  • D.D. Survivor works differently, and has a ruling saying so. Note it also doesn't say "once per turn", which is an important part of the effect, so the text can't be trusted. Besides, being face-down, attacked, destroyed by battle and then removed from play instead of going to the Graveyard is a very specific scenario, which is probably why it wasn't mentioned in the card text.
  • Poison Draw Frog specifically says "(unless it was attacked while face-down and destroyed by battle)".
  • I can't easily explain Giant Kozaky, other than it's an older card and it would be hard to word it such that it doesn't get its damaging effect if attacked while face-down and destroyed by battle.
  • Atomic Firefly specifically says it needs to be face-up before the attack happens in order to get its effect (plus a ruling backs this up).
  • Fox Fire is the same as Atomic Firefly.

In short, there's no reason to suspect Batteryman Micro-Cell shouldn't get its effect when attacked while face-down and destroyed by battle. Any similar cards specifically state what they do, via text or rulings (or both). And if it wouldn't get its effect in that case, either its text would say so or there'd be a ruling about it already.

I think Batteryman Micro-Cell will get its effect. After all, Jinzo gets its effect immediately after it's flipped by battle (see the ruling below), so it must therefore be face-up. And being flipped face-up is what Batteryman Micro-Cell needs.

Although, for the sake of perching on the fence, I'll admit it could go the other way (because of Giant Kozaky). But I still say the text should be different if it went the Giant Kozaky way.

• [Re: Embodiment of Apophis] If "Embodiment of Apophis" attacks a face-down "Jinzo", once "Jinzo" is flipped face-up, "Embodiment of Apophis" reverts to a Trap Card. Damage calculation is not applied.
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EDIT: Batteryman Micro-Cell's effect causes a Replay. That means the attack target is chosen again, and if it's still Batteryman Micro-Cell, then this time it's been declared as an attack target while face-up. So it should definitely get its effect.

Another EDIT: No it doesn't. I'm being confused here.
 
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Since when did a flip effect instigate a replay? His effect goes off in the resolve effects portion of the damage step. It doesnt cause a replay by summoning any more than man eater bugs destruction effect would cause one.

And jinzo isnt a valid arguement to prove your case. His effect is continuous and as such is always active. The second he is flipped up its in effect. The same as with monsters that have a continuous attack or defense boost effect. It is completely different to micro-cell.

EDIT
Skey gave the correct ruling already and i attempted to reiterate it for everyones benefit. Thats just the way it is.
 
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Huh. "Alien Grey" has the same effect, and the Japanese Wiki says that he gets his effect when attacked while face-down (although I can't find the official post saying). Guess I was wrong.
 
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