book of moon

[RONINLORD]

ok player a has face down ceasfire, zero gravity and book of moon and face up gemini elf.

if he/she attacks with gemini then book of moon in the battle phase, then ceasfire then zero gravity can it attack again.

 

[Digital Jedi]

I said it before and I'll stick to my guns: Unless equipped with a card, such as Twin Swords, or if the monster can attack twice, i.e. Mataza, then the monster only gets one attack, so Gemini Elf would have used its attack and not get to attack again. As to the BLS effect, I disagree that it would be reset. Its the same thing as the attack. BLS can only remove one monster per turn, even if flipped face down, then flipped face up by card effects. The only combo that will work is getting a flip effect monster to have their effect fire twice would be flip it, Book of Moon on it, then Book of Taiyou.

This has been covered before. Its already been established that when a monster is flipped face-down it "forgets" whether it's used it's effect for that turn. From the FAQ for Black Luster sodier - envoy of the beginning:

If you use the first effect of "Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning", then remove him from play and return him to play, or destroy him and Special Summon him again, or flip him face-down then face-up again, you can activate his effect again that same turn.

In BLS' case you could activate his first effect durin Main Phase 1, Book of Moon him, Book of Taiyou him and then, either use his first effect again or enter your Battle Phase using his second effect.

Now, I don't know where the notion that a monster "forgets" whether he's attacked or not is coming from. That is not an effect. Once you declare an attack with a selected monster, unless it leaves the field and comes back again that same turn, it absolutly cannot attack again.

 

[Digital Jedi]

ok player a has face down Ceasefire, Zero Gravity and Book of Moon and face up Gemini Elf.

if he/she attacks with gemini then Book of Moon in the battle phase, then ceasfire then Zero Gravity can it attack again.

In this scenario if all these cards are activated and resolve seperatly during the Battle Phase (since I can't realy see them chaining succesfully) then the attack would still go through as the attack has not concluded. It's not a matter of the card being reset. It's a matter of the Battle Step not having concluded yet.

I read this somewhere and for the life of me I can't remember where. But I'm certain it was from an official source. I'll keep looking.

 

[skey23]

In this scenario if all these cards are activated and resolve seperatly during the Battle Phase (since I can't realy see them chaining succesfully) then the attack would still go through as the attack has not concluded. It's not a matter of the card being reset. It's a matter of the Battle Step not having concluded yet.

I read this somewhere and for the life of me I can't remember where. But I'm certain it was from an official source. I'll keep looking.

Are you thinking of when a monster declares an attack, then the opponent activates something like "Enemy Controller" to switch the attacking monster to defense, then the attacker chains "Zero Gravity" to "Enemy Controller"?

In that scenario, the "Zero Gravity" would resolve 1st, switching the attacking monster to defense, then "Enemy Controller" would resolve switching it back to attack position. In this scenario the attack would still go through as normal since the monster did the 'quick' attack, defense, attack switch all in one swoop.

For Roninlord's example, he's saying the "Gemini Elf" attacks, the attack resolves, then after the attack he activates "BoM" to flip "Gemini" face-down (resolves), then activates "Ceasefire" to flip it back up (resolves), then activates "Zero Gravity" to put it back into attack position (resolves). It's a different scenario since it's not all happening at one time.

I would say the monster could attack since it was flipped face down by "BoM".

Just my $.02!

 

[RONINLORD]

so can the monster attack or not.

 

[Digital Jedi]

Are you thinking of when a monster declares an attack, then the opponent activates something like "Enemy Controller" to switch the attacking monster to defense, then the attacker chains "Zero Gravity" to "Enemy Controller"?

In that scenario, the "Zero Gravity" would resolve 1st, switching the attacking monster to defense, then "Enemy Controller" would resolve switching it back to attack position. In this scenario the attack would still go through as normal since the monster did the 'quick' attack, defense, attack switch all in one swoop.

For Roninlord's example, he's saying the "Gemini Elf" attacks, the attack resolves, then after the attack he activates "BoM" to flip "Gemini" face-down (resolves), then activates "Ceasefire" to flip it back up (resolves), then activates "Zero Gravity" to put it back into attack position (resolves). It's a different scenario since it's not all happening at one time.

I would say the monster could attack since it was flipped face down by "BoM".

Just my $.02!

Even so, you don't get to re-attack with a monster that's attacked this turn. There is no such thing as resetting the attack(verb) of a monster.

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

It makes a difference whether the cards were activated in a chain or not: Once a chain resolves (and only when the chain resolves) if the monster is not able to continue its attack it stops then. it has paid its attack for the turn and can't attack again.

With Enemy Controller and Zero Gravity being in a chain, the monster is in attack position at the beginning of resolution.. and although it will be changed to defense position, it will still be in attack position the chain resolves. Thus it couldn't attack again.

But if the cards were not in a chain, once one card resolves the monster will not be able to continue the attack, and has already declared an attack and won't be able to attack again. (Only one attack declration per turn) Switching an attacking monster's position does not cause a replay.

Therefore the monster will not be able to attack.

 

[skey23]

I understand what you're saying, but the issue/question at hand here is this:

Does flipping a monster face-down 'reset' it's 'already attacked flag' like it does other 'one-time only/once per turn' effects?

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

I understand what you're saying, but the issue/question at hand here is this:

Does flipping a monster face-down 'reset' it's 'already attacked flag' like it does other 'one-time only/once per turn' effects?

Well then jsut to make things clear, let's change the scenario so there's no more confusion

Player A Declares attack with Gemini Elf againts Harpy Lady (1 1600 atk)
Player A does not respond
Player B does not respond
Enters Damage Step no cards activated in it anywhere
Harpy lady is destroyed..



**(Player A attacks with Don Zaloog
Player B responds with Call of the Haunted selecting a 1600 ATK monster)
Player A activates Zero Gravity
Player B does not respond
Player A chains Ceasefire
Player B does not respond
Player A chains Book of Moon targetting Gemini Elf

Gemini Elf is flipped face-down, then flipped face-up and then switched to attack position

Can Gemini Elf attack when the chain resolves? A Gemini Elf already destroyed a mosnter in battle.. but is it considered the same Gemini Elf that's now attacking directly/a different monster?

Nope, it can't. Yes, it's the same one:
Each monster on the field gets one attack. Gemini Elf never left the field. Flipping a card face-down separates it from (some) effects and conditions, but the monster never left the field. And thus can't attack again. (re: Dark Magician of Chaos, it will not be removed from play if turned face-down by Book of Moon)

 

[skey23]

Excellent! I believe that's all Roninlord wanted to hear!

Thank you.