Compulsory Evacuation Device vs. Creature Swap

D

djshalifoe

New Member
Scenario:

My opponent switches his Scapegoat token into attack mode, plays Creature Swap and selects the goat in attack mode to give to me...my question is, can I then chain my Compulsory Evacuation Device and send (technically would RFG it, I know) the token "back to his hand?"

If so, would the effect of Creature Swap then disappear?

I'm thinking yes that's all legal, but LMK if I'm correct please & thanks.
 
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Wouldn't work like that. "Creature Swap" is non-targeting so your opponent doesn't pick which monster to give you until the resolution. While you could chain "Compulsory Evacuation Device" to "Creature Swap" and target the obvious choice (the ATK position Sheep Token), if he has another monster on the field, he can select that instead when "Creature Swap" resolves.

Now if you or he have only 1 monster on your side of the field respectfully and you CED that 1 monster, then "Creature Swap"'s effect will disappear.

- A
 
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Not each... all you need is for 1 of you to have 1 monster and return that 1 to that player's hand. Since somebody will have no creatures left, the effect fades. Of course if it's you who's the one with no monsters... *ouch*.

- A
 
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Or you could just wait for Creature Swap to resolve and then CED the monster your opponent took from you back to your hand.  Now you get to keep his and yours.

My questions is, after Creature Swap resolves can you CED the monster back to your hand before he can tribute it off for Jinzo?  I'm thinking probably not since the turn player would have the next move after the resolution of Creature Swap if you didn't actually chain.
 
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jdos said:
Or you could just wait for Creature Swap to resolve and then CED the monster your opponent took from you back to your hand.  Now you get to keep his and yours.

My questions is, after Creature Swap resolves can you CED the monster back to your hand before he can tribute it off for Jinzo?  I'm thinking probably not since the turn player would have the next move after the resolution of Creature Swap if you didn't actually chain.
Click to expand...

YES! Even more evil...mwahahahaha :evil:

Why didn't I think of that!? :?

Anyway, I think you could pull that off before he tribs it for Jinzo...
 
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He would have "Priority" once the Creature Swap resolved. Thus if his next move was to summon Jinzo Compulsory would not have a window of opportunity to be activated.
 
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anthonyj said:
He would have "Priority" once the Creature Swap resolved.  Thus if his next move was to summon Jinzo Compulsory would not have a window of opportunity to be activated.
Click to expand...

Incorrect. The chain or card effect did not end in a summon. After resolution of Creature Swap priority would be passed to the non-turn player to activate a spell speed 2 or higher card he has set, if the non-turn player does not or cannot then turn player would assume priority once again.

If the chain or card effect had ended in a summon then turn player would have been able to activate a spell speed 2 or cost effect before non-turn player would be able to respond.
 
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"Priority" has nothing to do with summoning. As a matter of fact that is kind of the crux of "Priority", summoning doesn't change Priority because it doesn't have a spell speed and thus isn't giving the opponent something to chain to. The Turn Player has Priority (first right to start a chain), the Non-Turn Player does not get the right to begin a chain unless the Turn Player passes "Priority" to the Non-Turn Player. This is the simple truth of Priority.

Thus once a chain resolves it is again in the hands of the Turn Player to determine what he will do next. Whether that is summon a monster, activate a spell or trap or activate another monster effect. So in this example Creature Swap resolves. The field has no pending effects that must be taken care of so it is the Turn Player who chooses what happens next. He chooses to summon Jinzo. Once that has been announced your only options are to 1) Horn of Heaven or Solemn Judgment or 2) Jinzo arrives and his continuous effect kicks in. Even after Jinzo arrives you as the non-turn player may not start a chain until your opponent either a) activates a chainable event or b) passes priority to you so you may do so.
 
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Anthonyj-

I'm not going to go into a long explination of priority here. I'll let the eventual priority thesis from UDE do that. I'm not even saying my post above is logical <laffin> I will support my statements in that post with a couple of things though. First, the post from the old Yahoo judge's list at the bottom of this post, secondly. myself and a half dozen other L2 and L3 judges sat down with Mr. Tewart at GenCon So. Cal. and picked his brain over the subject. This is how it was explained to us, it's how we ruled it at the Shonen Jump Championships, and it's how we'll continue to rule it until otherwise directed.

From: "Jeremy Treanor" <treanor@m...>
Date: Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:37 pm
Subject: RE: [UDE YGO Judge's List] Question about timing, priority, or etiquette, whichever it is.


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No.

Kevin Tewart
Game Developer
UDE Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG R&D Lead
Upper Deck Entertainment



Why is this? The last chain has resolved and the player who activated Snatch
Steal is clearly the Turn Player. Wouldn't he/she have the ability to do
something (like Tribute for a Tribute Summon) before the opponent gets to
perform his/her own action?

--Jeremy Treanor
Level 3 Judge


-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Chow [mailto:doodagemcownage@a...]
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 1:42 AM
To: ude_yu-gi-oh_tcg_judge_list@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [UDE YGO Judge's List] Question about timing, priority, or
etiquette, whichever it is.



No.

Kevin Tewart
Game Developer
UDE Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG R&D Lead
Upper Deck Entertainment


> I play Snatch Steal on my opponent's Shining Angel.
> My opponent chains Magic Drain.
> I discard Book of Moon
> Snatch resolves, I take control of Shining Angel.
>
> Now, do I get a chance to tribute off the monster before he can start
> a new chain with a set Mystical Space typhoon to destroy the snatch?
 
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I owe you folks an appology. It may have appeared in this last post that I was being short and uncoopperative. I'm at work right now and my time is limited I'm afraid.

Later this evening, assuming I can free up some time, I'll go into much more depth expaining WHY it works this way. I realize we're all hungry to figure the issue of priority out.

Let me add that before going to GenCon So. Cal. and having the chance to iron issues of priority out I thought EXACTLY as Anthonyj did. It all seemed to make perfect sense the way Anthonyj worded it in this thread, I had reasoned it out just the same. After it was explained to me though it the other definition made JUST as much sense!

Patience until at least tonight if not tomorrow please? Thank you all, again, my appology if it appeared I was being short and uncooperative.
 
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I'm more than willing to be wrong on this. I look forward to your information. I do wish Kevin would actually give game mechanic information when answering this kind of question instead of simply giving a "No". As this continues the incomprehensible delays to understanding what Konami actually wants "Priority" to be.
 
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Still very interested in hearing how this is supposed to work. How is it decided who has the right to perform an action first if it is not the way I previously posted? There has to be a determining factor on who has the right to act first after a chain successfully resolves.
 
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Here is how I see the situation. Once creature swap resolves your opponent has a chance to respond to it.  This would go for any card I assume.  I would figure it is the player who didn't activate the card who can respond first.

So you play creature swap and the monsters switch sides.  I can now respond to the monsters switching side with my trap card.
 
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I can only say what I use to say when I'm asked about my exams:

"I refuse to say anything until I talk with my lawyer."

Knowing about priority after every action in Yu-Gi-Oh! is becoming a nightmare. I suggest and go for a resolution of "Turn player goes first", but this concept is just relative and an easy solution for a problem that deserves more attention.
 
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I'm really sorry folks.....I really DO want to go into this, right now though I just don't have time to give a full explination. We just started Christmas shopping yesterday, I had to wear full body armor and carry a battle ax to grocery shop at Walmart today!....Helping the boys with homework, just bought the Christmas tree today (you know you're behind schedual when you get your tree for half price) and I've got to get the boys to bed right now.....<sigh> One of these days I HAVE to get some sleep as well......again....patience please...please?
 
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Looking forward to the explanation.  I gave myself a headache trying to explain this thread to a couple of people.  Shoot, we still had people screaming and crying about Breaker having priority at my tournament today...I can't imagine how this one would boggle their minds.

Hang in there John,  dontcha' just hate it when real life interferes with your card games   :lol:
 
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John Danker said:
Anthonyj-

I'm not going to go into a long explination of priority here. I'll let the eventual priority thesis from UDE do that. I'm not even saying my post above is logical <laffin> I will support my statements in that post with a couple of things though. First, the post from the old Yahoo judge's list at the bottom of this post, secondly. myself and a half dozen other L2 and L3 judges sat down with Mr. Tewart at GenCon So. Cal. and picked his brain over the subject. This is how it was explained to us, it's how we ruled it at the Shonen Jump Championships, and it's how we'll continue to rule it until otherwise directed.

From:  "Jeremy Treanor" <treanor@m...>
Date:  Fri Oct 22, 2004  7:37 pm
Subject:  RE: [UDE YGO Judge's List] Question about timing, priority, or etiquette, whichever it is.


ADVERTISEMENT



No.

Kevin Tewart
Game Developer
UDE Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG R&D Lead
Upper Deck Entertainment



Why is this? The last chain has resolved and the player who activated Snatch
Steal is clearly the Turn Player. Wouldn't he/she have the ability to do
something (like Tribute for a Tribute Summon) before the opponent gets to
perform his/her own action?

--Jeremy Treanor
Level 3 Judge


-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Chow [mailto:doodagemcownage@a...]
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 1:42 AM
To: ude_yu-gi-oh_tcg_judge_list@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [UDE YGO Judge's List] Question about timing, priority, or
etiquette, whichever it is.



No.

Kevin Tewart
Game Developer
UDE Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG R&D Lead
Upper Deck Entertainment


> I play Snatch Steal on my opponent's Shining Angel.
> My opponent chains Magic Drain.
> I discard Book of Moon
> Snatch resolves, I take control of Shining Angel.
>
> Now, do I get a chance to tribute off the monster before he can start
> a new chain with a set Mystical Space typhoon to destroy the snatch?
Click to expand...
What is being said here is completely correct anyway.

You cannot proceed to perform an action such as a summoning until the action/resolution of Snatch Steeal has been passed on.

There is nothing wrong with the statement at all, as Jeremy was asking specifically if you could perform a Tribute Summon ...which of course you cannot at that time. You must first resolve the Response Chain for Snatch Steal before the Turn Player could summon.

It would look like this:

[TP Chain Link 1] Snatch Steal (target -> Shining Angel)

resolve...

*Response Chain
TP Pass
[OP Chain Link 1] Mystical Space Typhoon (target -> Snatch Steal)

There is nothing wrong with that. You cannot perforn an action such as a summon until the Response Chain has resolved, the same thing will happen when MST resolves as well.

Thew question had nothing to do with activation of effect. If you were talking about the Turn Player activating a Spell Speed 2 or higher before the Opponent uses MST, that would be fine.
 
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Not arguing with you here, but I think most people (including myself) are thinking of it as a simple passing of priority back and forth, like any other time in the game.  In my thinking, this is the way it would resolve:

p1:  Plays Snatch Steal -->Targets p2's Shining Angel (priority now passes to p2)
p2:  Declines to respond (priority passes back to p1)

Snatch Steal resolves with Shining Angel residing on p1's side of the field.

p1:  (who retained priority after p2 declined to chain to Snatch Steal) Declares a tribute summon for Jinzo
p2:  "Oh crap"

Now, we already know that the above example is wrong...so here's where I think the problem may be.  It might be that the priority gets passed once more with p1 declining to chain to his own Snatch Steal and thus priority actually laying with p2 at the resolution of Snatch Steal, similar to this:

p1:  Plays Snatch Steal -->Targets p2's Shining Angel (priority now passes to p2)
p2:  Declines to respond (priority passes back to p1)
p1:  Declines to chain to Snatch Steal (priority now passes back to p2)

Snatch Steal resolves with Shining Angel residing on p1's side of the field.

p2:  (who regained priority after p1 declined to chain to Snatch Steal) Plays Compulsory and sends Shining Angel back to his own hand.
p1:  "Oh crap"

I'm not familiar with a "response chain" unless you're talking about the way priority get's passed back and forth when players decide or decline to respond to an effect or chain.  I've just never heard of it as an official mechanic of the game.  The 2nd scenerio makes sense to me, but I can see how people are going to argue til they're blue in the face about it being wrong because it does "seem wrong".  That priority essay from Kevin Tewart can't come soon enough.
 
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