Compulsory Evacuation Device vs. Creature Swap

D

djshalifoe

New Member
Scenario:

My opponent switches his Scapegoat token into attack mode, plays Creature Swap and selects the goat in attack mode to give to me...my question is, can I then chain my Compulsory Evacuation Device and send (technically would RFG it, I know) the token "back to his hand?"

If so, would the effect of Creature Swap then disappear?

I'm thinking yes that's all legal, but LMK if I'm correct please & thanks.
 
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John Danker said:
DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
The Turn Player ALWAYS has priority when a chain resolves. However, priority does NOT allow the turn player to perform a Summon.

(except for "Last Turn" if there are no trigger effects to resolve.. last turn happens before the turn-player can respond to the resolution of its chain)
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There are many very knowledgeable people who will disagree with this statement, myself being one of them.

Kenji you want to pipe in on this one or aren't you allowed to being you're an official source and the official Priority Essay hasn't been posted yet?
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I am teh say that you cannot use summon monster card when "last action" still exists (aka during a response chain). The turn player can use a speed 2 card to start off the response chain, however.

The last action MUST be cleared (i.e. neither player wants to respond to the latest last action) before the turn player can start using normal turn priority to, say, summon a monster or play a new magic card (Speed 1) from the hand.

I think there should be a Rulings Discussion forum, and this be moved there so as to not confuse players just looking for a ruling. This discussion is very complicated and we don't want random people joining in with "wait did u just say that...", do we?
 
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This is how I see it. If the turn player activates Monster Reborn, then the opponent can respond to the summon by activating Ring of Destruction. If the turn player takes control of your monster due to Creature Swap's effect, then the opponent can respond to the your monster being controlled by activating Ring of Destruction.

EDIT: Sorry, I made an error. I only read the thread's first page. I did not noticed that this thread has 5 pages. So, ignore this post of mine. :)
 
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Raijinili said:
I am teh say that you cannot use summon monster card when "last action" still exists (aka during a response chain). The turn player can use a speed 2 card to start off the response chain, however.

The last action MUST be cleared (i.e. neither player wants to respond to the latest last action) before the turn player can start using normal turn priority to, say, summon a monster or play a new magic card (Speed 1) from the hand.

I think there should be a Rulings Discussion forum, and this be moved there so as to not confuse players just looking for a ruling. This discussion is very complicated and we don't want random people joining in with "wait did u just say that...", do we?
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Yup, this is exactly how its done. I'm in total agreement with you Raj.

Frankly, i don't see what the issue is here, it just seems like a bunch of people (im not naming names) running around spreading knowledge they are not even solid about. This has been the way to handle priority in the other continent for some time now, and i see no reason to change it. It solid, tried, tested, and true...plainly... it works.
 
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I didn't attend GenCon, but this whole chaining to the resolution of a chain has been around for several months since Kevin's first email regarding Snatch Steal vs. Magic Drain vs. MST. While there was never a public explanation, it seemed most people theorized out the whys of it. Creature Swap-CED really shouldn't be that radical after everyone got over the shock of the Snatch-Drain-MST.

I like the phrase of a response chain. I think that phrase could also work after the turn player performs a summon -- good way to explain priority (glad everyone finally believes priority doesn't just extend to the monster just summoned.)

So, here are some situations I could see and what is allowed.
Player A has a face up Shining Angel,
a face up Cannon Soldier,
a Breaker the Magical Warrior (which still has a token),
a face up Mass Driver and
a face up Wave-Motion Cannon (with 3 turns counted)
a previously set Burst Breath.

Player B has a face up Blue Eyes White Dragon,
a face up defense position Spirit Reaper,
a set Compulsuary Evacuation Device,
a set Mystical Space Typhoon,
a set Ring of Destruction and
a set Sakuretsu Armor.

Player A plays Creature Swap. Player B does not respond.
Creature Swap resolves, Player A getting Blue Eyes White Dragon and Player B getting Shining Angel. Now...

1) Can Player A activate Cannon Soldier to tribute Blue Eyes White Dragon before Player B activates CED? YES.
2) Can Player A send Wave-Motion Cannon to the graveyard to start the responce chain before Player B can MST it? YES.
3) Can Player A activate Mass Driver to tribute Blue Eyes White Dragon before Player B activates CED? YES. *Mass Driver never made the official priority list, but it certainly seems to work the same (an already face up spell speed 1 cost effect.)
4) Can Player A remove a token from Breaker to target and destroy one of player B's set Spell/Trap cards before Player B can Ring Breaker? YES.
5) Can Player A activate Burst Breath by tributing Blue Eyes White Dragon before Player B can activate CED? YES.
6) Can Player A activate Share the Pain (or any other spell speed one spell card) from their hand to start the responce chain? NO.
7) *IF* Makyura the Destructor had been previously sent to the graveyard this turn, can Player A activate Burst Breath from their hand and tribute Blue Eyes White Dragon to start the responce chain before Player B can activate CED? New scenario, but I would certainly reason YES.
8) Can player A tribute Blue Eyes White Dragon for a tribute summon to start the responce chain before Player B can activate CED? NO.

These are not UDE rulings and are certainly open for discussion here, but based on what we have today these make sense. (Key word being today. :) )
 
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Not sure if anyone still has questions/doubts on this, but here is further proof of the response chain:

"QUESTION:
Player A activated The Warrior Returning Alive and got back Black Luster
Soldier - Envoy of the Beggining for the graveyard.

Player B activated Mind Crush in response to the Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of
the Beggining being put in Player A's hand, calling Black Luster Solder - EOTB.

So my question is, are you allowed to respond to a movement like adding a card
to a hand? Also does Plaer A have Priority to summon BLS - EOTB before Player B
activates Mind Crush?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANSWERS:
1. Yes you can respond.
2. No the player doesn't have priority to Special Summon his monster.

Kevin Tewart
"
http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=3127
 
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MadHatter said:
I didn't attend GenCon, but this whole chaining to the resolution of a chain has been around for several months since Kevin's first email regarding Snatch Steal vs. Magic Drain vs. MST. While there was never a public explanation, it seemed most people theorized out the whys of it. Creature Swap-CED really shouldn't be that radical after everyone got over the shock of the Snatch-Drain-MST.

I like the phrase of a response chain. I think that phrase could also work after the turn player performs a summon -- good way to explain priority (glad everyone finally believes priority doesn't just extend to the monster just summoned.)

So, here are some situations I could see and what is allowed.
Player A has a face up Shining Angel,
a face up Cannon Soldier,
a Breaker the Magical Warrior (which still has a token),
a face up Mass Driver and
a face up Wave-Motion Cannon (with 3 turns counted)
a previously set Burst Breath.

Player B has a face up Blue Eyes White Dragon,
a face up defense position Spirit Reaper,
a set Compulsuary Evacuation Device,
a set Mystical Space Typhoon,
a set Ring of Destruction and
a set Sakuretsu Armor.

Player A plays Creature Swap. Player B does not respond.
Creature Swap resolves, Player A getting Blue Eyes White Dragon and Player B getting Shining Angel. Now...

1) Can Player A activate Cannon Soldier to tribute Blue Eyes White Dragon before Player B activates CED? YES.
2) Can Player A send Wave-Motion Cannon to the graveyard to start the responce chain before Player B can MST it? YES.
3) Can Player A activate Mass Driver to tribute Blue Eyes White Dragon before Player B activates CED? YES. *Mass Driver never made the official priority list, but it certainly seems to work the same (an already face up spell speed 1 cost effect.)
4) Can Player A remove a token from Breaker to target and destroy one of player B's set Spell/Trap cards before Player B can Ring Breaker? YES.
5) Can Player A activate Burst Breath by tributing Blue Eyes White Dragon before Player B can activate CED? YES.
6) Can Player A activate Share the Pain (or any other spell speed one spell card) from their hand to start the responce chain? NO.
7) *IF* Makyura the Destructor had been previously sent to the graveyard this turn, can Player A activate Burst Breath from their hand and tribute Blue Eyes White Dragon to start the responce chain before Player B can activate CED? New scenario, but I would certainly reason YES.
8) Can player A tribute Blue Eyes White Dragon for a tribute summon to start the responce chain before Player B can activate CED? NO.

These are not UDE rulings and are certainly open for discussion here, but based on what we have today these make sense. (Key word being today. :) )
Click to expand...

For your statement number 4, I am pretty sure Breaker cant remove the token when it gets ringed.
 
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"Breaker the Magical Warrior's" effect is a Spell Speed 1 Ignition Effect, and so when the turn player has priority, they can choose to activate its effect, assuming "Breaker the Magical Warrior" was already on the field.

Of course, if "Breaker the Magical Warrior" was the just-Summoned monster, it would not have its Spell Counter yet, and thus could not use its effect.
 
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<grin> That's the whole controversy isn't it.....when turn player has priority.

Ah heck, look at it this way, if nothing else it's given us something to debate besides cookie cutter decks <laffin>
 
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John Danker said:
<grin> That's the whole controversy isn't it.....when turn player has priority.

Ah heck, look at it this way, if nothing else it's given us something to debate besides cookie cutter decks <laffin>
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I never thought it was the "when" taht was the controversy.

A) The opponent of the last card activated has the first opportunity to respond to a chainable event.
B) The turn player has priority to respond to a non-chainable event.
C) SEGOC: the turn players effects activate first and then the non-turn player and resolve backwards)

C-- might be unclear when dealing with both optional effects and mandatory effects at the same time

Conflict arises from 1) What can a player activate under priority of 'B' and 2) How it is remedied when a player skips his/her opponents priority (A or B)

for part B)

i)When a monster is being summoned a player can activate solemn judgement or horn of heaven
ii) At any time its timing is correct: a player can activate the effect of a card that's face-up on the field.
iii) a player can activate a spell-speed 2 card
iiii) a player can activate Negate Attack

Which is the part that has been unclear: but not nearly as unclear as the remedies for it.
 
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"A) The opponent of the last card activated has the first opportunity to respond to a chainable event."

This is a normal pass, and illustrates the idea that activations auto-pass. This should not have anything to do with Priority. I'm really starting to buy into the idea that Priority is not a "token" of sorts that is passed back and forth as things happen. It is simply the right to activate first, after every event or chain resolution, and the Turn Player always has it first.

This seems to be misguilded logic from the magic-heavy population at UDE. YGO is not built for that. It is VERY combersome to have to determine who has Priority after chain resolution just based on who's effect was activated last...its counter-intuitive.

"B) The turn player has priority to respond to a non-chainable event."

Yes, examples are a draw, a summon, an attack declaration, and a chain resolution.

"C) SEGOC: the turn players effects activate first and then the non-turn player and resolve backwards)

C-- might be unclear when dealing with both optional effects and mandatory effects at the same time"

Yes this is normal turn player priority (order of triggered effects), Mandatories always go on first, and then Optionals afterwards.
 
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novastar said:
Yes this is normal turn player priority (order of triggered effects), Mandatories always go on first, and then Optionals afterwards.
Click to expand...

What i was getting at was:
Do both players' mandatories go first, or do each player's mandatories go first?

i.e does it look like:

Turn Player Mandatory effects
Opponent Mandatory effects
Turn Player Optional effects
Opponent Optional effects

or

Turn Player-Mandatory effects
Turn Player-Optional effects
Opponent-Mandatory effects
Opponent Optional effects
 
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I say it's more like:

1) 1 of Turn Player's Triggered effects is placed on chain. (skip to 2 if none are available)
2) 1 of Opponent's Triggered effects is placed on chain. (skip to 3 if none are available)
3) If there are still Triggered effects awaiting a place, go back to step 1.
4) Manually activated effects can activate. Treat as a regular chain.

I don't believe that it makes a difference whether or not the Triggered effect is optional.

There are holes. For one, I don't know for sure who gets to activate the first manual effect. It's either the TP, following TP priority, or the opponent of the player that controls the last effect, following normal chaining rules.
 
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Thats pretty much still in line with what i said, but from what i've heard there is an order. And it would be all the Turn Player's effects first the Opponents second, whether mandatory/optional order matters remains to be seen. Personally, i don't think there should be, but i've heard that the UDE ruling will be to the contrary (from a usually very reliable source).

As far as who can activate the first manual effect...i will see what i can dig up. My guess would be the latter, but not for sure though.
 
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